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Gerrit Cole

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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby mac-unit » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:26 am

Krunk City King$ wrote:I was gonna trade him until I read these entries.

Observations made by another blogger:

He's pitched at least 6 in 3 of his 4 starts, and into the 7th twice, but he hasn't thrown more than 94 pitches in any start. This guy is focusing getting thru innings, throwing as few pitches as possible. Impressive. This is usually an art that has to be learned. Unusual for a rookie to be this efficient with his pitches. It's unusual for a rookie to focus on pitch efficiency. That Pirates have something special in this guy.

So another 6 innings, 3 earnies. Love the approach of this guy. His focus is on innings, not Ks. 7 out of his last 8 starts at AAA were 6+ innings. 3 out of 4 in the big leagues have been 6+. The guy has the build to be a workhorse kinda guy, and he has the ability to pitch innings. Pitching innings is clearly an art. Saw a breakdown of Cole by Smoltz. He's thrown 84% fastballs. And he's pitching in the zone with his fastball, pitching to contact. He ain't trying to get Ks, he's trying to induce contact, get quick outs. And he's got a heavy fastball that is tough to square up. As a result, he ain't getting hit. He's pitching in zone, primarily with his fastball, and the league has a .660 OPS against the guy. Could not be more impressed with Cole. This guy is gonna be a 230 inning guy, year after year, barring injury. Ks? Could not care less, and neither could Cole.

More Smoltz observations:

http://wapc.mlb.com/mil/play/?content_i ... id=7417714 ;-D



In fantasy, that's not good. You can be an ace in real life without Ks. No one is debating his real life value in this thread.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Krunk City King$ » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:28 pm

mac-unit wrote:
Krunk City King$ wrote:I was gonna trade him until I read these entries.

Observations made by another blogger:

He's pitched at least 6 in 3 of his 4 starts, and into the 7th twice, but he hasn't thrown more than 94 pitches in any start. This guy is focusing getting thru innings, throwing as few pitches as possible. Impressive. This is usually an art that has to be learned. Unusual for a rookie to be this efficient with his pitches. It's unusual for a rookie to focus on pitch efficiency. That Pirates have something special in this guy.

So another 6 innings, 3 earnies. Love the approach of this guy. His focus is on innings, not Ks. 7 out of his last 8 starts at AAA were 6+ innings. 3 out of 4 in the big leagues have been 6+. The guy has the build to be a workhorse kinda guy, and he has the ability to pitch innings. Pitching innings is clearly an art. Saw a breakdown of Cole by Smoltz. He's thrown 84% fastballs. And he's pitching in the zone with his fastball, pitching to contact. He ain't trying to get Ks, he's trying to induce contact, get quick outs. And he's got a heavy fastball that is tough to square up. As a result, he ain't getting hit. He's pitching in zone, primarily with his fastball, and the league has a .660 OPS against the guy. Could not be more impressed with Cole. This guy is gonna be a 230 inning guy, year after year, barring injury. Ks? Could not care less, and neither could Cole.

More Smoltz observations:

http://wapc.mlb.com/mil/play/?content_i ... id=7417714 ;-D



In fantasy, that's not good. You can be an ace in real life without Ks. No one is debating his real life value in this thread.


Me, personally, I am just providing info and insight on a small market newbie pitcher that I never heard of before last month....in the world of Puig's-on-the-front-page-now to occupy the media's headline slot which was permanently reserved for the Yankees and Red Sox hype machine...

I'll take his upside in a keeper league. ;-D

Like they said he has yet to throw his curve ball, his slider usage ratio is kind of low, so the K's will come. It is also according to how your league's scoring system is fashioned. He was won all of his starts. Winning is a good thing in most leagues, +8 points in my league for a win -8 points for a loss. He wins and I get positive points. As a #6 or a #7 pitcher on my staff, I will take his upside and hope for the best. There are a few old reliables out there like Hammels and Hudson who are not lucky enough to get too many wins. So Cole may not have max value in a re-draft or rotisserie league. But in a dynasty or keeper league he is more than gold for his potential. Even on the surface, take away his 95+ mph fastball and he may not seem like anything special, but the more I hear about his approach and go inside of the numbers, the more I like.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby kab21 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:37 pm

So Cole it basically just comes down to luck?

He has to defeat BAPIP and depend on his team to score runs to get the fickle win. He does have more value in leagues that cap innings (like H2H) but even in those leagues K's still dominate.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby deerayfan072 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:34 pm

kab21 wrote:So Cole it basically just comes down to luck?

He has to defeat BAPIP and depend on his team to score runs to get the fickle win. He does have more value in leagues that cap innings (like H2H) but even in those leagues K's still dominate.


I think it depends on your staff. If you already have a few guys that dominate Ks you can afford to have a guy that gives you 6-7 innings of 3 or less runs with little Ks. Gives you help in three other cats (WHIP, ERA, W or QS).
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby mac-unit » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:55 pm

deerayfan072 wrote:
kab21 wrote:So Cole it basically just comes down to luck?

He has to defeat BAPIP and depend on his team to score runs to get the fickle win. He does have more value in leagues that cap innings (like H2H) but even in those leagues K's still dominate.


I think it depends on your staff. If you already have a few guys that dominate Ks you can afford to have a guy that gives you 6-7 innings of 3 or less runs with little Ks. Gives you help in three other cats (WHIP, ERA, W or QS).


Except you can't count on 3 runs or less from a rookie who refuses to throw anything but his straight fastball. This isn't the minor leagues. These hitting coaches are going to tear him apart.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby TheTrith » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:00 pm

kab21 wrote:So Cole it basically just comes down to luck?

He has to defeat BAPIP and depend on his team to score runs to get the fickle win. He does have more value in leagues that cap innings (like H2H) but even in those leagues K's still dominate.

I assume you meant "leagues that DON'T cap innings" where his poor K/9 doesn't hurt as much.

But I agree with you. Much better real life pitcher than fantasy, at least for now.
He's depending way too much on his defense to have a high fantasy upside.
And throwing that many fastballs is not a recipe for success either. Might work teh first time he faces a team, but I cant see how he will be successful long term with that approach.
Eventually that K% may climb up, but until then I'm not going out of my way to acquire him.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby deerayfan072 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:21 am

mac-unit wrote:
deerayfan072 wrote:
kab21 wrote:So Cole it basically just comes down to luck?

He has to defeat BAPIP and depend on his team to score runs to get the fickle win. He does have more value in leagues that cap innings (like H2H) but even in those leagues K's still dominate.


I think it depends on your staff. If you already have a few guys that dominate Ks you can afford to have a guy that gives you 6-7 innings of 3 or less runs with little Ks. Gives you help in three other cats (WHIP, ERA, W or QS).


Except you can't count on 3 runs or less from a rookie who refuses to throw anything but his straight fastball. This isn't the minor leagues. These hitting coaches are going to tear him apart.


Sounds a lot like what people said about Hellickson his rookie and second year. Said he was just lucky and defense got him out. Interestingly enough, his Ks went up this year and he got hit around. I think it was because he was trying to work in other pitches he hadn't mastered yet and he was leaving them out over the plate. I'm not saying Cole can keep it up, but its not like it hasn't been done before.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Skin Blues » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:57 am

You cannot count on a rookie with 4 career starts for anything, and he seriously limits his upside by not being able to strike out anybody above the AA level. Using Jeremy Hellickson - the world's biggest outlier - to prove a point doesn't work very well. The fact that he's getting smacked around this year doesn't really help that argument either. He's been in the best pitcher's park in the majors, with the best defense in the majors, for his entire career. That might've helped a little bit.
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