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Gerrit Cole

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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby mac-unit » Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:39 pm

paisano1 wrote:Did you guys read what Cole said at all? As much as he would love someone to tell him not to pitch in the middle of the strike zone I think he has that under control. He has put his team in position to win the games he has pitched and they have.

Keeping a good pace and knowing where your fielders are can help a pitcher create his own sabrmetrics. This is the type of guy who puts the ball where he knows theres a better chance the batter will foul it off or hit it towards a fielder. Strike outs nice and all but by no means the only recipe to win games.

Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux were phenomenal and did it with pin point control and the ability to out smart the batter. I like this kid.



The game has a changed a lot since Maddux and Glavine were dominant pitchers. Almost all number 1 and 2 pitchers have a 7 k/9 or close to it. It's about being able to K guys while inducing ground balls. Not trying to guess where the batter is going to hit a line drive.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Mortician » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:32 pm

I think most people are missing the point with him. Its not that he doesn't have to ability to K guys, He had a k/9 over 9 in 2012, its that he has been saving his breaking stuff for when the k is necessary, when runners get on base. In his first two starts he worked the zone as instructed by his manager prior to his debut, and didn't really fall into situations where the k was needed. he breezed through the first few innings in both starts without getting into any trouble, and in the later innings when he got into a little trouble, he was pulled from the game. In his third start, he hit a couple rocky situations early and used the breaking stuff to induce a K when necessary, racking up 5 over 6 innings. As most managers instruct, pitching to contact, even in the majors, is ok when the bases are empty because only a homer can create a run. I'm sure if the league starts hitting a few out of the yard on him, they will increase the breaking ball percentage with the bases empty, but until then, he's working with a formula that has been used widely around baseball for decades. You always want to limit the exposure of your opponent to your strikeout pitches as much as possible, especially early in your career.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Krunk City King$ » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Mortician wrote:I think most people are missing the point with him. Its not that he doesn't have to ability to K guys, He had a k/9 over 9 in 2012, its that he has been saving his breaking stuff for when the k is necessary, when runners get on base. In his first two starts he worked the zone as instructed by his manager prior to his debut, and didn't really fall into situations where the k was needed. he breezed through the first few innings in both starts without getting into any trouble, and in the later innings when he got into a little trouble, he was pulled from the game. In his third start, he hit a couple rocky situations early and used the breaking stuff to induce a K when necessary, racking up 5 over 6 innings. As most managers instruct, pitching to contact, even in the majors, is ok when the bases are empty because only a homer can create a run. I'm sure if the league starts hitting a few out of the yard on him, they will increase the breaking ball percentage with the bases empty, but until then, he's working with a formula that has been used widely around baseball for decades. You always want to limit the exposure of your opponent to your strikeout pitches as much as possible, especially early in your career.


great analysis.
;-D
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Skin Blues » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:06 pm

Mortician wrote:I think most people are missing the point with him. Its not that he doesn't have to ability to K guys, He had a k/9 over 9 in 2012, its that he has been saving his breaking stuff for when the k is necessary, when runners get on base. In his first two starts he worked the zone as instructed by his manager prior to his debut, and didn't really fall into situations where the k was needed. he breezed through the first few innings in both starts without getting into any trouble, and in the later innings when he got into a little trouble, he was pulled from the game. In his third start, he hit a couple rocky situations early and used the breaking stuff to induce a K when necessary, racking up 5 over 6 innings. As most managers instruct, pitching to contact, even in the majors, is ok when the bases are empty because only a homer can create a run. I'm sure if the league starts hitting a few out of the yard on him, they will increase the breaking ball percentage with the bases empty, but until then, he's working with a formula that has been used widely around baseball for decades. You always want to limit the exposure of your opponent to your strikeout pitches as much as possible, especially early in your career.

This is a nice narrative, but it doesn't make sense if you look at what he's actually done. In 24 plate appearances with runners on base he doesn't have a single strikeout. In 50 plate appearances with the bases empty he has all 8 of his Ks.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Mortician » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:10 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
Mortician wrote:I think most people are missing the point with him. Its not that he doesn't have to ability to K guys, He had a k/9 over 9 in 2012, its that he has been saving his breaking stuff for when the k is necessary, when runners get on base. In his first two starts he worked the zone as instructed by his manager prior to his debut, and didn't really fall into situations where the k was needed. he breezed through the first few innings in both starts without getting into any trouble, and in the later innings when he got into a little trouble, he was pulled from the game. In his third start, he hit a couple rocky situations early and used the breaking stuff to induce a K when necessary, racking up 5 over 6 innings. As most managers instruct, pitching to contact, even in the majors, is ok when the bases are empty because only a homer can create a run. I'm sure if the league starts hitting a few out of the yard on him, they will increase the breaking ball percentage with the bases empty, but until then, he's working with a formula that has been used widely around baseball for decades. You always want to limit the exposure of your opponent to your strikeout pitches as much as possible, especially early in your career.

This is a nice narrative, but it doesn't make sense if you look at what he's actually done. In 24 plate appearances with runners on base he doesn't have a single strikeout. In 50 plate appearances with the bases empty he has all 8 of his Ks.



I wasn't stating anything about his results. I was just commenting about his approach, thats all.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby kab21 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:27 pm

Mortician wrote:I wasn't stating anything about his results. I was just commenting about his approach, thats all.


It's a SSS but so far the results don't support your analysis of his approach. He isn't getting K's when necessary.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby jefferey13 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:17 pm

Also the news for Cole right now is seeming to be he will be sent back down.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby Mortician » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:56 am

kab21 wrote:
Mortician wrote:I wasn't stating anything about his results. I was just commenting about his approach, thats all.


It's a SSS but so far the results don't support your analysis of his approach. He isn't getting K's when necessary.


that's correct. Again, i meant that WHEN he starts incorporating his breaking stuff more, more k's will come. so far, his pitch selection of breaking balls HAS increased each game so far. those are the results i meant. As his off-speed stuff becomes more utilized, more k's will result. Again, Im looking broader than the three games he's pitched in the majors so far. thats just too small a sample size to predict anything... And i'm not saying it's going to increase dramatically, but it will a bit though i believe. tough crowd! lol :-)
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby kab21 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:46 pm

Mortician wrote:
that's correct. Again, i meant that WHEN he starts incorporating his breaking stuff more, more k's will come. so far, his pitch selection of breaking balls HAS increased each game so far. those are the results i meant. As his off-speed stuff becomes more utilized, more k's will result. Again, Im looking broader than the three games he's pitched in the majors so far. thats just too small a sample size to predict anything... And i'm not saying it's going to increase dramatically, but it will a bit though i believe. tough crowd! lol :-)


The problem is that we have heard this before about simply turning it on at the right time. It's not nearly as simple as you make it sound and that's why we are skeptical. He's a talented arm but there are currently warning signs.
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Re: Gerrit Cole

Postby TheTrith » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Mortician wrote: Its not that he doesn't have to ability to K guys, He had a k/9 over 9 in 2012, its that he has been saving his breaking stuff for when the k is necessary

That, or he just doesnt have the ability to K guys.

I dont think his numbers this year from both AAA and MLB are lying.
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