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Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

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Re: Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:58 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:I dunno, I thought Robb was pretty easy to like/root for because he was so obviously going to be the "good" king that the realm needed. Fair and just and all that. I suppose those qualities meant he had no chance in the end, but he was still a very likable character.


I think Robb is likable or the easiest character to sympathize with because he fits the classic protagonist role. In the formulaic sense, it would just be a matter of time until he avenges his father and overcomes difficult odds to win independence for the north. Robb winds up paying greatly for his own mistakes and the tactical blunders of Edmure and Roose Bolton (if you like to call what Roose did as blunders).

I don't think Robb would have made a good king either. For a while, he also represented the seemingly invincible boy king trope. In the end, he was still a boy, who was bestowed a leadership role by his birth right but the naivete that comes with youth was to his undoing too.
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby Curtis Pride » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:42 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:I dunno, I thought Robb was pretty easy to like/root for because he was so obviously going to be the "good" king that the realm needed. Fair and just and all that. I suppose those qualities meant he had no chance in the end, but he was still a very likable character.

Why would he be the "good" king? He certainly wouldn't be a complete psycho like Joffrey, but that's a pretty low bar.

Why would he be any better than Stannis? It's not like Robb decided to go to war because of how Joffrey or the Lannisters were treating the common folk. He went for not other reason than vengeance and to protect his family's wealth and power.

He made stupid decisions like making the oath to the Freys only to pretty much immediately ignore it, and then assume Frey would be totally fine with it and like sending Theon back to the Iron Islands. He also couldn't build alliances with any other houses, which is why he was backed into a corner and relying on the Freys.

The only person with a quasi claim to the throne that could be seen as the "good" ruler is Dany. She's been the victor in every skirmish with anyone. She's never (yet) let her power or accomplishments go to her head and abused them. Her main goal is to free slaves, and has engendered massive loyalty to everyone who's dealt with her.
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby hondo4mvp » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:11 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:I dunno, I thought Robb was pretty easy to like/root for because he was so obviously going to be the "good" king that the realm needed. Fair and just and all that. I suppose those qualities meant he had no chance in the end, but he was still a very likable character.

Why would he be the "good" king? He certainly wouldn't be a complete psycho like Joffrey, but that's a pretty low bar.

Why would he be any better than Stannis? It's not like Robb decided to go to war because of how Joffrey or the Lannisters were treating the common folk. He went for not other reason than vengeance and to protect his family's wealth and power.

He made stupid decisions like making the oath to the Freys only to pretty much immediately ignore it, and then assume Frey would be totally fine with it and like sending Theon back to the Iron Islands. He also couldn't build alliances with any other houses, which is why he was backed into a corner and relying on the Freys.

The only person with a quasi claim to the throne that could be seen as the "good" ruler is Dany. She's been the victor in every skirmish with anyone. She's never (yet) let her power or accomplishments go to her head and abused them. Her main goal is to free slaves, and has engendered massive loyalty to everyone who's dealt with her.


I agree.I haven't read the books,but I'd trade Verlander for her.LOL.Hell,I'd give up FBB for her. :-)
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:57 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:Why would he be any better than Stannis? It's not like Robb decided to go to war because of how Joffrey or the Lannisters were treating the common folk. He went for not other reason than vengeance and to protect his family's wealth and power.


As far as I remember Robb decided to go to war to get his sisters back with vengeance as secondary reason. I don't think it had much to do with protecting wealth or power. He definitely didn't make the best wartime decisions, but most of those were because of his naivety and sense of justice (such as beheading Karstark for murdering the two boys). I don't think he did anything to suggest that he wouldn't be a fair and just king.

I was already rooting for Dany, but she's definitely next in line for the "likable protagonist" role and she's got the ruthless side to her that Robb didn't.
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby RyanK » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:21 am

how can you read boobies?
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby hondo4mvp » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:42 am

RyanK wrote:how can you read boobies?



Braille
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Re: Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:15 am

Curtis Pride wrote:He made stupid decisions like making the oath to the Freys only to pretty much immediately ignore it, and then assume Frey would be totally fine with it and like sending Theon back to the Iron Islands. He also couldn't build alliances with any other houses, which is why he was backed into a corner and relying on the Freys.


Robb's marriage pact came as one of the concessions Catelyn made so that Robb could cross the Twins and make their move on the Lannisters before the Lannisters could. In the books, Walder Frey gives most of his army to Robb's command, which made it seem more favorable to Robb to take. Also, Lord Walder could have easily handed Robb to the Lannisters had Catelyn not stood in to negotiate. It was an easy decision to live with, as long as Robb didn't break the marriage pact.

Catelyn tried to make an alliance with Renly, but of course, Stannis' shadow kills him and Renly's forces went to Stannis. Not Robb's fault either.
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:28 am

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I would love to see Danys, Margaery, Shae and Ygritte in this production.
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby j24jags » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:47 pm

As a fan of the show who never read the book, I was definitely shocked in this episode. I wasn't shocked that Rob died, just the way it happened. I don't think the punishment fit the crime (backing out of an agreed-upon marriage shouldn't cost you, your mother, wife & unborn child their lives). It just goes to show that the show is more about telling a story of the world rather than telling the Stark's story. I haven't read the books, but I assume it is set up similarly. To me, that's what makes this a great show. They pulled off the ultimate twist by presenting a group of protagonists, the Starks (beginning with Ned, then Rob), then moving on in one scene. We should have learned from Ned's beheading in season 1, but by avoiding killing off other major characters this year we viewers let our guard down. We got used to the status quo and the writers quickly reminded us to stay on our toes. I am intrigued about the future of the show. I think Danerys & Arya are the two most interesting characters to fill the "protagonist void." I also am looking forward to the Tyrion-Sansa relationship, Margaery/Melissandre, John Snow etc. What makes the show great is so many developed characters...That turned from a coherent thought to a ramble very quickly :-b
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Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:28 am

j24jags wrote:As a fan of the show who never read the book, I was definitely shocked in this episode. I wasn't shocked that Rob died, just the way it happened. I don't think the punishment fit the crime (backing out of an agreed-upon marriage shouldn't cost you, your mother, wife & unborn child their lives). It just goes to show that the show is more about telling a story of the world rather than telling the Stark's story. I haven't read the books, but I assume it is set up similarly.


RW is portrayed somewhat differently in the books. It reads like a good horror story while not being written like a typical horror story, if that makes any sense. RW on TV doesn't really go beyond shock value and it feels rather rushed compared to the source material.
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