Game of Thrones (no book spoilers) - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:16 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Mookie4ever wrote:You guys are insane. This episode was great.

After reading some reviews yesterday I came to the conclusion that is you like action movies and/or cinematography then you loved it. I've never found the story at the wall all that interesting and while the battle looked awesome I wish it moved the story more. Maybe I'm just spoiled too cause the last few episodes have been great and this one didn't measure up to me.


In general, the story at the Wall does takes a back seat to what happens in King's Landing, even though it's not way off in the background either. Just goes to show that some people are too preoccupied to remember Winter is coming.

My big gripe with the series, as far as the Wall is concerned, is Mance Rayder not being established as a character. He's endearing in the books because he's this charming lute player who has a way of making it past The Wall and visiting Winterfell as a traveling musician. (That's backstory in the book, not a spoiler at all.) All the while still being badass.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby bleach168 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:16 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
If I was writing it I'd have the Lannisters make a deal with the mother of dragons and sandwich the shizzle out of that Stannis turd when he attacks


"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident." - Stannis

Stannis is the one true king.
"And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear." - The Rains of Castamere
bleach168
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 5058
(Past Year: 16)
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:20 pm

Ah, don't get me started on Stannis. I don't think D&D truly understand Stannis' character and is therefore, the most misunderstood one for the TV series. (In the books, he's still a bit misunderstood, but he's not cruel. Pragmatic, not cruel though and more of an atheist too. He's also not Melisandre's puppet.)

When we first meet Stannis, he goes on a litany of whines and rants, but I started to sympathize with him when he started talking about Proudwing:

When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health. Proudwing, I named her. She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand, but she would not soar. Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops. Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike. One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right…The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos…
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:06 am

That finale was good, but underwhelming. It definitely wasn't the cluster**** I was fearing, but the big moments wound up being anticlimactic IMO. For the unsullied, I'm sure it was terrific television.

First, the positives. The pacing was good and there was some proper closure with most storylines. I liked the merging of the Hound/Arya and Brienne/Pod's arcs and we got a good Hound v Brienne duel out of it. Thankfully, Arya is going alone to Braavos without the Hound after all. I don't remember Bran and co being attacked by those skeleton whuzzits (it was a White Walker/Other in the books), but Bran's ended well. I also liked getting a peek at delusional and paranoid Cersei that we all know and love from Book 4.

Now for the negatives. I was a tiny bit peeved that the finale had one big glaring omission (book readers know exactly what I'm talking about). While on that point, I believe that omission will appear next season albeit it would be less significant IMO (but we have no Coldhands!). Something else bothers me most and that's the handling of Tyrion's scenes.

Up until this point, Show Tyrion has been portrayed as a universally likable character who can practically do no wrong. (Book Tyrion is universally likable but we know he's got issues.) What happens in this episode makes him equally as cynical and disturbed as Arya. One of the most tragic moments in the books is Tyrion's feeling of betrayal by his entire family. Yes, that includes Jaime, when he reveals that his first wife Tysha wasn't a whore at all, something Tyrion finds unforgivable. What he does to Shae and Tywin, he does out of pure rage as a result. Granted, the Tyrion/Shae dynamic is different and his relationship with Shae is closer to Tysha. Regardless, I felt his scenes lacked the power and emotion needed. It also doesn't achieve in making Tyrion more screwed up than he lets on.

Poor Jaime. Revealing the Tysha bit also changes his character, in an indirect but significant way. I would have thought that Tyrion's unjust sentence would be the final straw in Jaime resisting Cersei. Instead, he's still weak in caving in to Cersei and still not keeping to his kingsguard vows. No one will tell him that Cersei has been screwing around with Moon Boy (no spoiler, Moon Boy isn't even in the TV series).

I wonder if D&D have an irrational hatred of Stannis. They spoil Stannis' showing up to save the Night Watch's bacon in the teaser (and in the Season 3 finale). Even then, he's stripped of his most heroic moment thus far, even if the events remain true to the source material. (I always envisioned it as like the Ride of the Rohirrim in LoTR, with the triumphant shouting of "Stannis! STANNIS! Stannis!") This is the point in the story in which Stannis quits obsessing about his birth rights and finally practices what he preaches: saving the realm (aka The King Who Cared).

Good season all in all, but I would say the last two episodes have been quite disappointing. Entertaining, but disappointing as far as the overall story goes.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby bleach168 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:50 am

In the book,

1) When Mance offers a peaceful solution, Jon doesn't believe Aliser Thorne will accept it.
2) Stannis doesn't demand that Jon Snow kneel before him. But Jon kneels before him anyways and calls him "your Grace."
3) Stannis never asks Jon for instructions on how to handle the Wildlings. He has his own plans already. A very good plan at that.

In the TV show,

TV Stannis ruins what could have been a peaceful solution. :-o
TV Stannis demanding everyone kneel before him only to have no one kneel so TV Stannis can look like a fool. :-?
TV Stannis asking Jon what to do next and promptly doing as instructed because TV Stannis has yet to come up with an original thought and only does as instructed like a well trained dog. :-P

Oh and almost forgot the evil music playing for the Stannis reveal. %-6
"And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear." - The Rains of Castamere
bleach168
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 5058
(Past Year: 16)
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:31 am

bleach168 wrote:Oh and almost forgot the evil music playing for the Stannis reveal. %-6


Ah yes, Stannis' theme, which sort of sounds like a cross between Darth Vader's theme and one for Sideshow Bob. That killed any desire to want to cheer for Stannis.

Also, Mance became sympathetic for surrendering such that he can spare Wilding lives (you still have numbers even if Stannis' army are on horseback, why surrender so quickly). Somehow, that makes Stannis seem even more cruel.

Like I said before, what really separates the books from TV is the character development. The TV characters are so much more shallow than the books. D&D have done Stannis, Jaime, and Littlefinger the greatest disservice in particular.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby AussieDodger » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:43 am

They killed my two favourite characters (Dad Lannister and The Hound).
Now what :-/
ATTENTION LONG-TIMERS! NEW FBC: http://fbc2.freeforums.net/
AussieDodger
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 11363
(Past Year: 25)
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: What do you mean, Flash Gordon approaching?

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:36 am

I watched the finale last night and I liked it. ;-D

I particularly liked the omission. As I've stated before I dislike that character and it could easily have been written out of the series and we would be much better off.

Stannis' army looked much too large and well organized and the hundred thousand wildings and assorted creatures vanished pretty quickly. Tyrion, Arya and Jon were their typical outstanding selves. It's a shame that next season is going to suck as the story goes nowhere and the major characters take a holiday for an entire book. If you are reading the series you can stop at Storm of Swords and pretend that it is an unfinished series. George Martin is a lazy fat bastard. Oh well, time to go back to sons of anarchy.
Image
Mookie4ever
Head Moderator
Head Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterHockey ModBasketball ModFootball ModMatchup Meltdown ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 19545
(Past Year: 257)
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Hakuna, Montana

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby bigken117 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:37 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:I particularly liked the omission. As I've stated before I dislike that character and it could easily have been written out of the series and we would be much better off.


ya me too, I don't get the internet obsession with it.

Interested to see what they do with season 5, given that books 4 and 5 don't have the pace that book 3 (and this season) had.

One thing I liked best, this doesn't spoil the books, but we never get definitive proof Jojen dies, which leads to a pretty wild internet theory that I was already on board with. Him actually dying basically convinces me.
Image

Jacoby Ellsbury - Sponsored by the Fantasy Baseball Cafe!

Play Pick 3!

Follow the Cafe on Twitter!
Like us on Facebook
bigken117
Bouncer
Bouncer

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 12879
(Past Year: 248)
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: posed in an awkward stance

Re: Game of Thrones (no book spoilers)

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:46 pm

If memory serves, the omitted character only has two big scenes. There are a few possibilities with that character for the final two books of the series that make the inclusion so promising. So, I don't think it is a lost cause.

I still haven't read A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons in tandem. Books 4 and 5 are one big book unto itself and I'm told that they're both more tolerable that way. I struggled to finish both books on the first read.

We're probably not going to get The Winds of Winter (Book 6) until next year. I can imagine how difficult it is to tie so many plot lines and elements together. So, I'll cut GRRM some slack. Plus, he still uses Wordstar for DOS, which can explain the occasional typos. :-b
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron
Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 23:32 hours
(and 95 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact