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League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

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League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby MakeItVibrate » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:45 pm

I personally feel that its not a democracy when it comes to FBB. If two teams make a good trade to improve both of their teams, you have 10 or 12 other teams who dont want them to improve(it is a competition). So they all feel obligated to veto every trade. Then youre stuck in a league with absolutely NO TRADES at all. On the other hand, who am I(commish) to say whether a trade is to be passed or not? There always seems to be one or two teams that take advantage of other teams that are not as informed on players. How are your guys leagues ran as far as this matter, and how do you feel as far as league or commish veto? If its league veto, how many votes to veto? Half the league? A quarter of the league?

Signed... A disgruntled commish whos going to retire after this season. smh
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby fast dogs » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:29 am

vetoes suck and you really need to approach a league with the idea you are going to allow managers to make their own mistakes and their own trades. you set up the league by saying you are looking for managers who aren't going to veto trades. you talk about trading and building rosters and allowing other managers to do the same. you plant seeds before the first draft about the kind of league you want this to be.
If you are still having vetoes you make it harder by saying all objections need to be sent to commish. don't let other owners see the # of votes, do something to break up the path you are heading down.
these things are tough to accomplish with 14 or 15 strangers but if you go into the season with some guidelines it can be accomplished. My last 15 leagues we've had 2 or 3 trades shot down and alot of questionable 1's go thru. it can be done, but you need to shape it that way from the beginning and constantly keep talking with the owners and working with them. not every league can make this happen, but if you look for and find the right owners vetoing doesn't have to suck all the fun out of a league(and the life out of the commish)
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby OBPlover » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:15 am

MakeItVibrate wrote:I personally feel that its not a democracy when it comes to FBB. If two teams make a good trade to improve both of their teams, you have 10 or 12 other teams who dont want them to improve(it is a competition). So they all feel obligated to veto every trade. Then youre stuck in a league with absolutely NO TRADES at all. On the other hand, who am I(commish) to say whether a trade is to be passed or not? There always seems to be one or two teams that take advantage of other teams that are not as informed on players. How are your guys leagues ran as far as this matter, and how do you feel as far as league or commish veto? If its league veto, how many votes to veto? Half the league? A quarter of the league?

Signed... A disgruntled commish whos going to retire after this season. smh


Come on I think there's just a common sense issue here. And the old "sniff" test. I don't think people will veto trades just for the sake of vetoing trades because then they might need to make trades themselves at some point and they would fear the retaliation.

"who are you?" ..you are the commissioner and if you make the rule that you get sole veto ability then you do your best to be fair and remember that the other owners agreed it would be up to your discretion.

Vetoes do not "suck" they are essential to running a good, fair league.
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby converge241 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:11 am

In leagues where you have the veto power in the hands of all league mebers; Those folks who get angry and block trades just to prevent others from improving (or for spite because they couldn't do a deal) do end up facing retaliation and therefore you perpetuate the cycle until eventually a large number of league members are angry. Even teams not affected start to get sick of all the back and forth. Just IMHO of course.

Sometimes its nice to be in leagues that do not have trades like the NFBC so you don't even have to deal with the headache
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby converge241 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:11 am

The downside is of course...that you cant trade if you have a surplus/need :-)
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby twinkypoop » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:36 pm

fast dogs wrote:vetoes suck and you really need to approach a league with the idea you are going to allow managers to make their own mistakes and their own trades.


I agree with the comment above. I don't think it is the Commish's job to protect the inexperienced from their actions. You learn from your mistakes, and don't make it again the following year if you got bent over & hosed in a bad transaction.

I run two leagues, 1 where I hold sole veto rights, and the other where I assigned a co-commish & we share veto rights. I communicate with the league to PM me if you have any issues with the trades being accepted. I just don't think it is fun to be in a league where trades get vetoed because it improves your opponents. I thought that was the whole point of trading your players with other league members.
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby Fassero99 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:16 pm

MakeItVibrate wrote:I personally feel that its not a democracy when it comes to FBB. If two teams make a good trade to improve both of their teams, you have 10 or 12 other teams who dont want them to improve(it is a competition). So they all feel obligated to veto every trade. Then youre stuck in a league with absolutely NO TRADES at all. On the other hand, who am I(commish) to say whether a trade is to be passed or not? There always seems to be one or two teams that take advantage of other teams that are not as informed on players. How are your guys leagues ran as far as this matter, and how do you feel as far as league or commish veto? If its league veto, how many votes to veto? Half the league? A quarter of the league?

Signed... A disgruntled commish whos going to retire after this season. smh


I've been at this for over 20 years now and I'll give a brief recap of my experience.

For the longest time, my leagues had some kind of "self-regulating" trade mechanism PLUS a veto option. In all those years, the veto was NEVER used. In the one or times it could have been, the most common response from those who wouldn't pull the trigger was it wasn't the merits of the trade itself but, rather, if they exercised it the feared by persecuted and avoided as a trade partner. In the meantime, the trade mechanisms would always turn out to be rife with loopholes to the point where trades were *worsened* to merely make them in a way to get around the mechanism. One caveat - the veto rule stipulated that it could only be used if one specific criteria was met.

In the last couple of years, I managed to convince everyone to get rid of the self-regulating mechanisms (almost all of which were predicated on the salaries of the players involved) and strictly have a veto that could be exercised for any reason by an owner. Migrating to on-line services (CBS, ESPN), the veto also became a truly anonymous submission plus the Commissioner has the power to override the veto or clear the trade before it even goes to one. The end result actually has been substantially "fairer" trading and much less argument.

That being said, I'm really not a fan of trade regulation at all. In 4x4 or 5x5 formats, no player can possibly contribute to more than half the categories and with rare exceptions even contribute to THAT many (i.e. 4 or 5.) That doesn't even count the risk of injuries, pitchers almost never being "sure things", etc. that often, in the end, mitigate the aftermath. Unless there is some kind of massive 10+ player swap that goes way out of it's way to one team dumping itself to oblivion and one dominating the league even if half the players underwhelm, I'm not convinced that trade regulation (including in just about all cases, veto rules) is necessary. If the league really appears to be that corrupt at the Commissioner level or among the owners, there's always one smart strategy - leave it.
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby murph3699 » Thu May 09, 2013 11:18 am

I'm a believer in a "free market". We have no veto at all but I have the authority to overturn a trade that is believed to be bad for the integrity of the league. In 9 years I've never had to use it. My league is a 16 team keeper league that allows draft picks to be traded.
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby dkleiss13 » Fri May 10, 2013 6:46 pm

Always have been and always will be against vetoing trades. Owners verso because they don't want a team to better themselves or because they wanted some of the players traded for themselves . There will always be trades that people don't like but as commissioner you can speak to the owners and ask their logic if you feel a trade is bad. A trade that others find bad may be exactly what that team needs.
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Re: League or commish veto? Pros/Cons

Postby Thin.Blue.Line » Sat May 11, 2013 8:09 am

murph3699 wrote:I'm a believer in a "free market". We have no veto at all but I have the authority to overturn a trade that is believed to be bad for the integrity of the league. In 9 years I've never had to use it. My league is a 16 team keeper league that allows draft picks to be traded.


Same exact situation here. I too have a league where I (The Commish) have the power to veto any trade I see hurts the integrity of the league, and have never needed to use it. I allow all trades to go through unless there is obvious collusion involved. I only invite solid, moral people so it has not been a problem. You have to allow the rookies to get their feet wet and hands dirty, and that includes letting them make a few dumb moves in order to learn. Nobody places their child in a padded room or germ-free bubble their entire lives.. you have to let them learn from their mistakes.. dramatic comparison but it is the same concept.
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