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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby Pogotheostrich » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:25 pm

I think you shoot yourself in the foot if you trade Cano. Basically the Yankees would be saying they are out of it for this year. Plus no one is going to give up a ton a prospects knowing Cano is going to test out FA.
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:I was thinking more about this.
Say the Yankee's miss the playoffs in 2013 are they really going to dial it down for the 2014 season? Doesn't that hurt their image/brand more than the luxury tax? Or is that all forgotten when they start spending again in 2015?


This is a good question. If the Yankees 2013 is lackluster and they miss the playoffs, I think it would be hard to justify more spending cuts pre-2014. That said, most Yankee fans seem to only care about the present moment and disregard the past (good or bad) and the future. So while 2014 could be an ugly year in terms of PR if they stink, my guess is that all would be forgotten if they break the bank for 2015.
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby toledomudhens » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:42 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
toledomudhens wrote:"THE BRAND" died when george died, these brothers are runing everything....as a die hard yankee fan i want nothing more than too see cano in our lineup for the next 7 years.But bad contracts and this mentality that the brothers have of the luxury tax threshold, are going to really make signing cano to a deal he and boras want.....it hurts me to say it so much....But we need to trade him to a contenter, and get some serious talented youngsters ready to go....we cant keep going with jeter, ichiro, youk, arod, tex.....there old age pensions are about to kick in any time now....we need a 3 year plan...but agaiin...who could trade for him? who has the prospects?


I think it's ironic you say the brand died with George and then condemn Hal for bad contracts. George was the king of bad contracts and the last championship the Yankees won was built by Hal and Cashman, not George. If anything I think the Yankees are in much better hands with Hal and Cashman running the show than they ever were with George calling the shots (provided this spending cut is indeed temporary.)

You're calling for a 3-year plan but that is exactly what KimbosBeard described above. Three of the five players you just mentioned have 2 or less years on their deals. Dumping A-Rod and Tex is fine in theory but pretty much an impossibility. Your only suggestion seems to be to get rid of Cano...maybe the only guy on the team worth paying big money. And that's not to say whatever contract he gets will be great for its' duration...it likely will become a bad deal down the road like most other 6+ year contracts. But that's the price of doing business, and the Yankees are the last team in the world who should complain about it since they are the least affected by it.


Bronx, I am pretty sure, but i cant recall ever saying dump arod or tex.....But if we give into him then we are screwed again....And yes we almost have to waive the white flag right now...we are not built to win at all.We cannot compete with the detroits, angels, sf's, nationalsand now the jays....We will be lucky to finish 4th in our division, and it looks that way for the next 3 years or so....thats why i say trade cano now and get the most possable, that will help us in 2-3 yrs....
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:59 pm

toledomudhens wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
toledomudhens wrote:"THE BRAND" died when george died, these brothers are runing everything....as a die hard yankee fan i want nothing more than too see cano in our lineup for the next 7 years.But bad contracts and this mentality that the brothers have of the luxury tax threshold, are going to really make signing cano to a deal he and boras want.....it hurts me to say it so much....But we need to trade him to a contenter, and get some serious talented youngsters ready to go....we cant keep going with jeter, ichiro, youk, arod, tex.....there old age pensions are about to kick in any time now....we need a 3 year plan...but agaiin...who could trade for him? who has the prospects?


I think it's ironic you say the brand died with George and then condemn Hal for bad contracts. George was the king of bad contracts and the last championship the Yankees won was built by Hal and Cashman, not George. If anything I think the Yankees are in much better hands with Hal and Cashman running the show than they ever were with George calling the shots (provided this spending cut is indeed temporary.)

You're calling for a 3-year plan but that is exactly what KimbosBeard described above. Three of the five players you just mentioned have 2 or less years on their deals. Dumping A-Rod and Tex is fine in theory but pretty much an impossibility. Your only suggestion seems to be to get rid of Cano...maybe the only guy on the team worth paying big money. And that's not to say whatever contract he gets will be great for its' duration...it likely will become a bad deal down the road like most other 6+ year contracts. But that's the price of doing business, and the Yankees are the last team in the world who should complain about it since they are the least affected by it.


Bronx, I am pretty sure, but i cant recall ever saying dump arod or tex.....But if we give into him then we are screwed again....And yes we almost have to waive the white flag right now...we are not built to win at all.We cannot compete with the detroits, angels, sf's, nationalsand now the jays....We will be lucky to finish 4th in our division, and it looks that way for the next 3 years or so....thats why i say trade cano now and get the most possable, that will help us in 2-3 yrs....


Lucky to finish 4th? :-?

The Yankees are favored to win the division. In fact, PECOTA projected them to win the East with 88 wins, Tampa to win 84 and Toronto and Boston with 83 each. Could NY finish in 4th? Of course. But they could just as easily finish in 1st. The division is wide open this year and no team looks particularly dominant. The playoffs are a crapshoot, anyone can beat anyone. And it's not as if the Angels, Tigers, Rangers or anyone else in the AL is invincible. The entire league is beatable.

And how can you say "it looks that way for the next 3 years or so" when almost the entire roster is turning over after this year? Aside from A-Rod, Teixiera and Sabathia, the 2013 Yankees are no indicator of what the 2014 or 2015 Yankees will look like. This isn't a team that was hamstrung like Boston was before the mega-deal last year.
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby toledomudhens » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:28 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
toledomudhens wrote:
BronXBombers51 wrote:
I think it's ironic you say the brand died with George and then condemn Hal for bad contracts. George was the king of bad contracts and the last championship the Yankees won was built by Hal and Cashman, not George. If anything I think the Yankees are in much better hands with Hal and Cashman running the show than they ever were with George calling the shots (provided this spending cut is indeed temporary.)

Actually vegas has the jays as the favorite....and how do you expect these old timers to compete with these teams that are young and built to win now....Your love for the yanks will blind you, but get real, we are the 2012 red sox...
You're calling for a 3-year plan but that is exactly what KimbosBeard described above. Three of the five players you just mentioned have 2 or less years on their deals. Dumping A-Rod and Tex is fine in theory but pretty much an impossibility. Your only suggestion seems to be to get rid of Cano...maybe the only guy on the team worth paying big money. And that's not to say whatever contract he gets will be great for its' duration...it likely will become a bad deal down the road like most other 6+ year contracts. But that's the price of doing business, and the Yankees are the last team in the world who should complain about it since they are the least affected by it.


Bronx, I am pretty sure, but i cant recall ever saying dump arod or tex.....But if we give into him then we are screwed again....And yes we almost have to waive the white flag right now...we are not built to win at all.We cannot compete with the detroits, angels, sf's, nationalsand now the jays....We will be lucky to finish 4th in our division, and it looks that way for the next 3 years or so....thats why i say trade cano now and get the most possable, that will help us in 2-3 yrs....


Lucky to finish 4th? :-?

The Yankees are favored to win the division. In fact, PECOTA projected them to win the East with 88 wins, Tampa to win 84 and Toronto and Boston with 83 each. Could NY finish in 4th? Of course. But they could just as easily finish in 1st. The division is wide open this year and no team looks particularly dominant. The playoffs are a crapshoot, anyone can beat anyone. And it's not as if the Angels, Tigers, Rangers or anyone else in the AL is invincible. The entire league is beatable.

And how can you say "it looks that way for the next 3 years or so" when almost the entire roster is turning over after this year? Aside from A-Rod, Teixiera and Sabathia, the 2013 Yankees are no indicator of what the 2014 or 2015 Yankees will look like. This isn't a team that was hamstrung like Boston was before the mega-deal last year.
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:41 pm

toledomudhens wrote:Actually vegas has the jays as the favorite....and how do you expect these old timers to compete with these teams that are young and built to win now....Your love for the yanks will blind you, but get real, we are the 2012 red sox...


First of all, it depends what sportsbook you're using as to who the favorite is. I just briefly looked a few up and the Yankees and Jays O/U for wins were both set at 86.5 on each one. But regardless, to say the Yankees would be "lucky" to finish in 4th place is laughable. These "old timers" did alright last year...winning 95 games and making it to the ALCS. Yeah they lost some pieces but so did Tampa. Baltimore over-performed by a large margin last year, Boston will be improved but would have to have a lot of things go right for them to even make a wildcard spot and Toronto is being vastly overrated based on a few high-profile trades.

To say the Yankees are the 2012 Red Sox...a team that was batting Mauro Gomez cleanup in September...is comical. The Yankees are not as dominant an offensive team as they have been in recent years, but they have just a good (or better) a chance to win the East than any other team in that division.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/odds/
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby toledomudhens » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:16 pm

ok I hear you, but i don't think u hear me....we are old, and we are not the same as before...
ichiro...38
jeter...broken ankle
cano...pending free agent(already said no)
Tex..."I am not the same player as i was"..and now he has a wrist problem
grandy...gone for 6 weeks, pending free agent and is slowly getting to that adam dunn avg.
youk...lol...lol...do i need to say more
Cervelli...lol..lol..again....
nunez....kid can hit, but defense is this guys big problem
gardner...missed most of last season with his throwing arm, never good...never...
Then there is arod....two plastic hips..lol...
pitching
cc....bone spurs...too many innings who knows anymore(20 mil)
kuroda...solid...but 38 yrs old
pettit..39ish
?
?
Rivera...torn acl...he needs his legs to pitch...plus he is over 40
now you can see what i mean, we are in trouble..we have contracts that we can't get rid of, and we keep signing players who avg 200 ab's a year(hafner)...The only real big chip we have right now is cano, do u loose him via free agency, or do you get something for him, cause another 200 mil contract will only kill us even more....I love the yanks, but I just cant take these 8 yr contracts to players who are 30 and above....cause it will never, ever pay off.....sorry bronx
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2013 New York Yankees

Postby BronXBombers51 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:29 pm

toledomudhens wrote:ok I hear you, but i don't think u hear me....we are old, and we are not the same as before...
ichiro...38
jeter...broken ankle
cano...pending free agent(already said no)
Tex..."I am not the same player as i was"..and now he has a wrist problem
grandy...gone for 6 weeks, pending free agent and is slowly getting to that adam dunn avg.
youk...lol...lol...do i need to say more
Cervelli...lol..lol..again....
nunez....kid can hit, but defense is this guys big problem
gardner...missed most of last season with his throwing arm, never good...never...
Then there is arod....two plastic hips..lol...
pitching
cc....bone spurs...too many innings who knows anymore(20 mil)
kuroda...solid...but 38 yrs old
pettit..39ish
?
?
Rivera...torn acl...he needs his legs to pitch...plus he is over 40
now you can see what i mean, we are in trouble..we have contracts that we can't get rid of, and we keep signing players who avg 200 ab's a year(hafner)...The only real big chip we have right now is cano, do u loose him via free agency, or do you get something for him, cause another 200 mil contract will only kill us even more....I love the yanks, but I just cant take these 8 yr contracts to players who are 30 and above....cause it will never, ever pay off.....sorry bronx


I just don't understand what you're proposing. As I said a hundred times, the only players on that list signed beyond this year are CC, A-Rod, Teixeira and Ichiro (2 years.) Everyone else...Jeter, Kuroda, Pettitte, Rivera, Granderson, Cano, Hafner, Youkilis...are done after 2013 (unless Jeter picks up his $8M player option.)

The only "contracts we can't get rid of" are the 3 I mentioned, and I'm not sure why you'd want to get rid of CC's. It's not a favorable deal but that's the only option if you want a front-line starter.

If you want to let Cano walk rather than pay him $200+ million then that's fine, but I don't see what that has to do with any of the other players you listed or why NY needs to "blow up" their team. Just say you don't advocate giving Cano a mega-deal.

I also think you're highly overrating what kind of return the Yankees could get for Cano in the trade market. Teams are not going to empty the farm for a rental of a player who just turned down $27 million per year and is dead set on testing free agency after the year.

And based on the fact that NY are contenders in 2013 with Cano, I have no idea why you'd want to take pennies on the dollar for him in a trade.
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby toledomudhens » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:37 pm

I love my yanks, but i say no higher then 3rd in that division....no playoffs for them....I never said get rid of CC, I damm well hope managment doesnt resign 34 and over again next year.....we need to get young.....remember when we had jeter, posada, williams, rivera and pettit all young and in there primes for years, and cheap(for a while)....this is what I think we need to do again, Our farm system isn't exactly screaming top 3....All I am saying is we cant give into boras, and if we are out of the race, cashman really needs to think about moving our best chip.....Cause if this guy wanted to be a yankee for life, he would have accepted there offer...plain and simple...
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Re: 2013 New York Yankees

Postby Kimbos Beard » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:38 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:I was thinking more about this.
Say the Yankee's miss the playoffs in 2013 are they really going to dial it down for the 2014 season? Doesn't that hurt their image/brand more than the luxury tax? Or is that all forgotten when they start spending again in 2015?


This is a good question. If the Yankees 2013 is lackluster and they miss the playoffs, I think it would be hard to justify more spending cuts pre-2014. That said, most Yankee fans seem to only care about the present moment and disregard the past (good or bad) and the future. So while 2014 could be an ugly year in terms of PR if they stink, my guess is that all would be forgotten if they break the bank for 2015.


I think the Yanks can get by with the fans during this "mini-rebuilding phase". To look at it objectively as a fan you would have to say that this is a short rebuilding phase. They are reigning in the spending for 1-2 years so that going into 2015 they can spend big. If you see how much the Yankees will save in luxury tax going forward by getting to 189 in 2014 its abusrd.

For all its flaws, this is still a legitimate playoff team. Fans don't have to endure what is happening cross-town with the Mets where the rebuilding phase has been going on for 4 years and is still not complete.

This team should still win high 80's maybe 90 games and very likely will make the playoffs in this new 2 wild card format. Its hard to be mad at a team who can offer their fans that.
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