Need an Extra Pitching Category - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Commissioner's Corner

Need an Extra Pitching Category

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby bhowell » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:52 pm

I am setting up a 10 team roto league. In addition to the standard categories (Batting: AVG, R, HR, SB, RBI; Pitching: W, ERA, WHIP, SV, K) we want to add Batting: OBP and K and Pitching: BB. I would like to have the stat categories even If possible so pitching and batting are valued the same. Categories I was considering for pitching: L, QS, HR (Home Runs Allowed).

I am conflicted because I see downsides to all of them: Loses devalue good pitchers on bad teams, Quality Starts are accounted for in other categories mainly W, Whip, ERA; and Home Runs Allowed is accounted for in ERA. Additionally, in an ideal world the stat categories would be evenly distributed with Pitching and Hitting having the same number of negative categories, that would mean QS is the only category I could add (which I am mostly against)

Because this is a new league I am not getting strong input from the managers on this, except they are against HLD's (which would have sloved this) so I figured I woulds toss it up to this forum for ideas. I am open to any and all suggestions.
bhowell
T-Ball Trainer


Posts: 1
Joined: 5 Mar 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:59 pm

Some oddities in that set. I guess I wouldn't tend to run a league that used both BA and OBP, because they would tend to value a lot of the same guys (not *all* the same guys, but a lot). I guess by the same token you could use W and QS for pitchers. I'm just not sure what you're trying to get by adding the new stats.

While I tend to like to have the number of categories balanced between position types, I would note that you probably also have less pitchers than batters. If you have fewer categories for a position type, it tends to make that position type less valuable. If you have fewer slots for a position type, it tends to make them more valuable. Hockey can be weird, for example, because you often only have 2 goalies, and in a league with equal number of goalie and skater stats, it makes goalies pretty powerful. 2 good goalies can help you as much as 9 good skaters. This is also the dilemma with closers, where one roster slot on your team can single-handedly responsible for a category. So if you have (slightly) fewer pitching stats, I'm not sure that is the end of the world since you have fewer pitchers in your lineup as well. These offset to some degree.
Fantasy Sports Genie
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1388
(Past Year: 41)
Joined: 1 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:00 pm

Try QS INSTEAD of Wins. Also, add HOLDS. Creates great fun, just make sure you have 5-6 RP slots.
pvhawkeye
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 83
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby RotoValue » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:42 am

I'd be wary of negative categories (e.g. HR allowed or losses). Those encourage you not to replace injured starters.

QS is probably better than W, but also more common, so while there is overlap, it's a decent add.

I also like straight innings. Innings eaters have some positive value. If it's a weekly format, and/or there are transactions limits, innings should work well. Since you have both WHIP and ERA, you'll be punished for using crappy pitchers by bad percentages, but you still have more incentive to replace an ace who gets hurt.

The goal of a pitcher is to get outs, and innings are just outs times 3!
RotoValue
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 40
Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 pm

RotoValue wrote:I'd be wary of negative categories (e.g. HR allowed or losses). Those encourage you not to replace injured starters.

QS is probably better than W, but also more common, so while there is overlap, it's a decent add.

I also like straight innings. Innings eaters have some positive value. If it's a weekly format, and/or there are transactions limits, innings should work well. Since you have both WHIP and ERA, you'll be punished for using crappy pitchers by bad percentages, but you still have more incentive to replace an ace who gets hurt.

The goal of a pitcher is to get outs, and innings are just outs times 3!

The only quick thing I'd add there is that my league used to use IP as a category. But if you use that, you need to remember to undo the setting for max IP (if you are playing roto or points). It would be kinda weird to say, "You should try to pitch as many innings as possible, but I'm going to cap you at 1250, and every team that gets there will tie for first". And if you remove that setting and make IP a category, you are implicitly allowing/encouraging streaming, which is something lots of people don't like.
Fantasy Sports Genie
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1388
(Past Year: 41)
Joined: 1 Feb 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby msing » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:40 am

My league runs 6x6 categories
R - HR - RBI - Steals - AVG - OPS
Outs – ERA – QS – K – Saves – BB/9

I wanted conservative changes, so players don't have to re-rank their pre-draft rankings or change their draft strategy entirely. I also wanted less of a bias towards relievers in the conventional 5x5 pitching categories (relief pitchers traditionally dominate ERA, S, and WHIP out of the 5 cats). My last requirement was to use categories or statistics that were widely accepted by all, or painfully honest.

I have innings capped at 1400. Roto league, so everyone can easily acquire 10pts, so staying active is key.

This post explains my rationale:
viewtopic.php?t=455050&sid=2c6b6c79f5e1a9834eaf64d1dbd9c49a#p3582165
msing
Little League Legend
Little League Legend


Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby RotoValue » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:48 am

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:But if you use that, you need to remember to undo the setting for max IP (if you are playing roto or points). It would be kinda weird to say, "You should try to pitch as many innings as possible, but I'm going to cap you at 1250, and every team that gets there will tie for first". And if you remove that setting and make IP a category, you are implicitly allowing/encouraging streaming, which is something lots of people don't like.


I suppose IP as a category might encourage streaming, but that should be much less of an issue in a weekly league compared to one with daily transactions. You could always add transaction limits per scoring period, and/or for the whole season, to reduce streaming. And in a sufficiently deep league counting percentage categories, what you may gain in Ks/IP you risk giving back in ERA/WHIP.

Heck, my long-time leagues have an innings minimum, not a cap, to discourage mostly reliever strategies (traditional 4x4, so all/mostly relievers would otherwise give you a good staff in ERA/WHIP/Saves while punting wins).
RotoValue
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 40
Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby GolbeZ » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:41 am

If you are adding OBP .. you should just drop Bat-Avg and you dont have to force another pitching stat

personally I don't understand why people are adding OBP and keeping BA ..
Keepers
Andrew McCutchen
Carlos Gonzalez
Robinson Cano
David Wright
GolbeZ
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor

User avatar

Posts: 35
Joined: 23 Feb 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Need an Extra Pitching Category

Postby NextLvlFantasy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:54 am

Personally I am a huge fan of including holds in 6x6 leagues (and replacing wins with quality starts). Having wins and quality starts trivializes the value of relievers, while having losses means you could presumably have a bunch of relievers and just try to take saves, era, whip..Could minimize that potential issue with minimum innings pitched rules though.
NextLvlFantasy
Little League Legend
Little League Legend


Posts: 16
(Past Year: 9)
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Home Cafe: Baseball


Return to Commissioner's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact