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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby jeffmerk » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:50 pm

thedude wrote:
Ender wrote:http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-03-14/news/new-times-steroids-mlb-biogenesis/

They officially did not release the report to the MLB. In the things they did release they blacked out the names of anyone who had no real connection to steroids in the report and that included blacking out Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Braun since nothing about their inclusion suggested steroid purchases the way other players did.


Wow. Talk about holier than though and factually incorrect in parts:

It started with Shoeless Joe Jackson, the Chicago White Sox player and son of a sharecropper who was unjustly banned from baseball for fixing the 1919 World Series. The guy who probably had more to do with that deal, White Sox owner Charles Comiskey, walked free after the scandal and even had the White Sox stadium dedicated in his name.


I have never seen it suggested anywhere than Charles Comiskey (who was a total turd) had any part in fixing the 1919 World Series.

Comiskey was a CHEAP total turd and that made it easy for his players to consider outside compensation when he refused to deal with them fairly. It was the Reserve Clause taken to the extreme.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby thedude » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:10 pm

jeffmerk wrote:
thedude wrote:
Ender wrote:http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-03-14/news/new-times-steroids-mlb-biogenesis/

They officially did not release the report to the MLB. In the things they did release they blacked out the names of anyone who had no real connection to steroids in the report and that included blacking out Gio Gonzalez and Ryan Braun since nothing about their inclusion suggested steroid purchases the way other players did.


Wow. Talk about holier than though and factually incorrect in parts:

It started with Shoeless Joe Jackson, the Chicago White Sox player and son of a sharecropper who was unjustly banned from baseball for fixing the 1919 World Series. The guy who probably had more to do with that deal, White Sox owner Charles Comiskey, walked free after the scandal and even had the White Sox stadium dedicated in his name.


I have never seen it suggested anywhere than Charles Comiskey (who was a total turd) had any part in fixing the 1919 World Series.

Comiskey was a CHEAP total turd and that made it easy for his players to consider outside compensation when he refused to deal with them fairly. It was the Reserve Clause taken to the extreme.


Yes, but he never accepted money from gamblers for fixing baseball games. Charles Comiskey did not jeopardize the very integrity of the game.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby BalataGrande » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:32 pm

Well, here we go........doesn't mention Cano or Grandy......YET........but it may be time to get nervous about them.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-o ... esis-links
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Ender » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:42 pm

Why would I get nervous about that story? It basically says they are going after Braun and have absolutely no chance of suspending him. It is a complete non issue, especially now that they didn't turn over the documents. There is as much chance I get suspended from those papers as there is Braun does.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby BalataGrande » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:48 pm

It was talked about during the A's/Angels game on MLB, they said there were stories flying around today based off that report and seemed to allude to "others" involved. Hell, I hope its just residual crap and this will all go away, but time will tell and draft dates are coming.....LOL
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby jeffmerk » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:51 pm

I don't know, Ender. You're looking unusually buff lately. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a suspension.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Ender » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:56 pm

I'm certainly past my prime and I'm performing about the same as I always have, I'm a prime target. More importantly I don't have the baseball union backing me up which makes it really really hard to suspend anyone without an air tight case.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby bayside » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:28 pm

Anyone know if the current agreement allows MLB to store/freeze samples from a current year, for testing at a later date? Just wondering if new tests could be performed on old samples as technology develops for more effective procedures.

Or are the specific types of tests allowed outlined in the CBA?
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Ender » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:09 pm

I don't know the answer to that bayside but the new tests are blood tests so a urine sample wouldn't help with them.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby msing » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:24 pm

bayside wrote:Anyone know if the current agreement allows MLB to store/freeze samples from a current year, for testing at a later date? Just wondering if new tests could be performed on old samples as technology develops for more effective procedures.

Or are the specific types of tests allowed outlined in the CBA?


There's nothing in the MLB Joint Drug Prevention program that describes a feature of that sort, a biological passport. It makes all the sense though; Lance Armstrong citied that as the sole reason why he got caught with doping. They collected his urine samples from previous and re-tested for EPO. He got caught with EPO in all the years he's competed in the Tour De France

The PDF of the Joint Drug Prevent Program here. Basically this is what the player's union agreed to, and what the MLB is limited in power to
mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems the agreement was written by a lay-person from MLB (who has little to no knowledge of chemistry), and it's rather full of loopholes for a drug testing program.

This section from the Drug Prevent Program would be more biting if it were expanded to include testing collected samples from previous years, to create a biological passport or so
5.
Testing will be conducted only pursuant to a scientifically-validated test. If a
scientifically-validated test is not currently available for a Prohibited Substance, but
becomes available during the term of this Program, testing will be conducted for that
Prohibited Substance

Apparently that just means if they found a new test for a drug, they'll automatically add it on to the current series of tests being performed that year, and there's no retroactive applications. So, I'm extrapolating here as a non-lawyer, if an athlete was using some sort of brand new PED, as long as he stopped usage of it, before they started testing for that new PED, he would get off scott free. Baseball has to announce what substances they're additionally testing to not upset the baseball union, so it's basically turns a drug testing into an IQ test

ESPN reported Braun's urine which tested positive for the extraordinary high testosterone to epitestosterone ratio was re-tested, and a synthetic steroid was found. I don't know why MLB didn't choose to pursue that case again, or let the labs finish their analysis before going after him. Even if improper procedure was followed for the T:E ratio, that can't hide that a synthetic steroid was found in his urine. /rant.

The machine they use to detect synthetic steroids isn't obscure or anything. It's the cornerstone of analytical chemists, biochemists; it's what they use in the lab frequently. Liquid chromatography–mass spect machines. They're accurate to like 99.9999% to detect toxins in a river or identifying an unknown reagent. I've only had experience with Liquid Chromatography machines, and they give results in less than an hour so. If they have a machine that's calibrated and a good control sample, then the results are clear as day.
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