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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby GiantsFan14 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:56 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:My only real point here is that juiced balls appear to have affected Sammy Sosa way more than anyone else. I was just using big hurt as an example of someone with consistent power that was not affected in the same manner by the "juiced balls". There are plenty of other players I could use to illustrate the same point.

Juiced balls would have (and did) have a universal effect across the league. But Sosa's power surge was way more drastic than what the league saw. The reason for this was because, as we all know, he was sticking giant chemical-filled syringes up his corn hole.


And the rest of the league wasn't?
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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:10 pm

The burden shouldn't be on me to prove Sosa was cheating in a way that others weren't. His dramatic career change and 3 63+ hr seasons prove that all on its own.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby mweir145 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:13 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I'll even give you broken or close to broken. But 73 HR's is 19.7% higher than the previous record. It's not even close.

do me a favor. open up your excel. copy in the top 100 HR seasons of all-time. Then, make a column graph of the data. you'll notice right away that 66, 70, and 73 are complete outliers. they don't even look like they belong in the same data set. and, obviously,the more data you add over the past 100 years, the sillier those numbers look.

This is actually a reason to believe there was much more impacting the offense in that time period than just prevalent PED use. PED use has been prevalent in baseball for the last 50+ years (and is still likely prevalent now), but there was only one stretch when elite hitters started going off for 65+ HR.



What about the fact that all 6 of those 63 hr+ seasons just happen to come from 3 known steroid users?

Don't you think that if something else was the prevailing factor there would have been more than 3 people cranking out those numbers?

The only good argument to that is that those 3 would have been the elite power bats of that generation with or without steroids, but, I think Sammy Sosa debunks that theory.

There might not have been other players cranking up numbers as high as the true elite power hitters did, but players were putting up huge numbers.

In the 2000 season, 16 players hit 40+ HR and 47 players hit 30+ HR. 19 players had an OPS above 1.000 and 48 players had an OPS above .900. The league's average OPS was .782. If you put an elite power hitter like Stanton or Bautista into this kind of power environment, they would likely be hitting 60+ too over a full season.

In contrast, in the 2010 season, only 2 players hit 40+ HR and 18 players hit 30+ HR. And only 4 guys had an OPS above 1.000 and 14 guys had an OPS above .900. The league's average OPS was .728.

Now unless you think PED use has somehow diminished significantly among MLB players (and there is little reason to think it has), I'm not sure how anybody can explain that enormous differential away by simply attributing it to PED use. It is only reasonable to assume there was much more at play (and if you read the articles I posted, you'll see what that "more" probably was).
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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:31 pm

I'm not denying that there was more at play all across the league. I'm just saying that Sosa was doing something else.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby Izenhart » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:11 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:I'm not denying that there was more at play all across the league. I'm just saying that Sosa was doing something else.


I think the pitchers of the era 10 years ago weren't as good as they are today. Or that the humidity in Chicago was thinner then. There's about a bajillion variables here, and only 1% of them are going to be covered in a 500-page thread. Sosa hit his peak at the right time, was in great shape, and despite hitting 60 home runs on 3 separate occasions, he didn't lead the league in any of those years. The point is he wasn't the only one juicing, yet he played at a level very few did. Maybe he was just very talented, worked very hard, and took some shortcuts along the way, but in the end he reached his potential where others fell short.
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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:24 pm

No.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby wrveres » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:37 pm

Aaahh Sosa. My second favorite steroid subject. It's been over a decade and we still have zero evidence he did anything. No trainer, no busted lab, nothing. Just some idiot reporter demanding he pee in a cup.
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby AHF » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:58 pm

I haven't followed Sammy Sosa and his desperate efforts to learn the English language closely but weren't there reports that he tested positive for steroids?

Googling:

http://voices.yahoo.com/sammy-sosa-test ... 49793.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/sport ... ml?em&_r=0
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Re: Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby wrveres » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:40 pm

Sosa wasn't in the Mitchell report, but was investigated. And those links are from an anonymous source 5 years after the original anonymous list was leaked. Some how when they were busy breaking the law releasing names on the list of 104, they forgot to include Sosa. They conveniently got around to it 5 years later. ;-D

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Source: Cano, A-Rod, Braun, Granderson to be suspended

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 pm

Sosa is all in the numbers. As far as I'm concerned he doesn't need to get caught.

Just, all of a sudden, in his age 29 season he goes from 36 hr to 66 hr. a career 16% hr/fb guy is, out of nowhere, sustaining 25%+ hr/fb rates???


If that isn't proof that steroids make a dramatic impact, I don't know what is.
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