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Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

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Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:30 pm

In a nutshell: You can protect 5 players. Besides them, your top 26 performers will be at risk of being "selected". Selected players will be cut from your team and put in the offseason draft pool. 2 will be selected if they have been active on your team 3+ years. Selections are random, but are more forgiving for those that missed playoffs. If you want to keep a selected player instead of losing him, you must select 3 other top 26 performers to be lost in his place.

WHIR. Please provide any input, if you think this is a good method etc.
Beginning a dynasty league. I want to avoid the salary caps/salaries and avoid the standard "choose 10 keepers" methods. The basics of our proposed system is randomly selecting 2 players from every team that have met 3 years of service or more to be placed in the offseason draft pool. We use 2 match ups per week (44 total). Details are listed below.

Years of Service
Each player on your team will gain 1 year of service after he has accumulated 20 match ups (approx 10 weeks' time) of being in your active roster for that particular season. For any player with 0 years of service, these match ups will accumulate over multiple years until their first 20. From there, the 20 match up minimum will be a season-by-season basis for adding years of service greater than 1.
When trading with another team, years of service will carry over to the new team. Also, if you drop a player and add him at any time in the future (weeks, years, etc.) without him having been on a different manager’s roster, he will assume the years of service he had when you dropped him.
In all other cases (off season draft, new free agent pickup, rookie-eligible), the player will start on your team with 0 years of service. Also, if you happen to draft a cut player of yours he still resets to 0 years of service.

Rookies
A previous ruling stated you must maintain a minimum 5 rookie-eligible players on your 40-man roster at all times. If, during the regular season, your rookie loses rookie-eligibility (in real life), he will still count towards your 5 minimum until the end of that season.
In ADDITION to this previous ruling, if your rookie-eligible player has not gained 1 year of service on your fantasy team (played less than 20 series on active roster), he STILL counts towards your 5 minimum rookies for following seasons until he has gained 1 year of service on your active roster. For example, I draft John Doe. In 2013, John Doe exceeds 130 AB's (thus, no longer 'rookie'). However, I never called him up to my fantasy active roster. He will still count towards my 5 minimum rookies until he has accumulated 20 match ups. I could leave him inactive for as many years as I wanted, and he would still count towards my rookie minimum. This is designed to give managers the challenge of deciding when to call up prospects.

Selecting Leaving Players
Following a player's 3rd year of service on your team, he may be one of 2 players on your team randomly selected. Everyone in the league will know the randomly selected players from each team that will be in their "contract year" before that season begins (After 2 years of service, players in "contract year" will be announced). 2 players are selected from every team.

Protected Players
Each manager, following the last day of the playoffs, will submit a list of exactly 5 players they would like to be protected from the selection process. Since only players with only 3+ years of service are eligible, it would be wise that your list only contains players with 2+ years of service.
Your 5 protected players must be your 5 MOST VALUABLE selection-eligible players, with “Most Valuable” meaning most valuable according to you.
There are holes in the current selection process that could be exploited. For example, if you finished 3rd, you know it is not possible for your #6-9 to be selected. If one or more of your 5 most valuable players happened to be one of these ranks, you could pick others to be in your select 5 because you would know that group is not at risk. This is NOT allowed and is not up for strategic planning or management. The selection system only works if each owner honestly selects only their top 5 most valuable 2+ year service players to be protected.
I will judge each manager’s selected top 5. If I suspect you of trying to cheat the system, you will be penalized. It will be fairly obvious, as the only way to exploit this is to leave one of your top ranked players unprotected. The only reason this selection system lends itself to judgment is because I allow you to judge your 5 MVP’s after the season has ended and I’ve allowed you to be a part of determining how the selection process works.

The selected players, following their "contract year" will either:
a) Be re-signed by their owner
b) Be given up to the annual off season draft
Re-signing: You must select 2 players from your top 26 performers that season (no years of service restriction) to replace the re-signed player in the off season draft pool. Re-signing a player will reset his years of service to 0.

Selection Process
Players are eligible to be selected only if they meet ALL of these conditions:
a) They've accumulated at least 3 years of service
b) They are one of your top 26 performers the previous season (prior to the "contract year")
c) They are not one of your 5 self-appointed protected players

However, the selection process is not a purely random selection of your entire top 26 vets. You will only be at risk of your top players being selected if you were a playoff team the previous year. Your 5 protected players will make up #1-5 on your rankings automatically. (#6 is your best unprotected player)
If you finished 1st the previous year:
1 player randomly selected from your #6-13
1 player randomly selected from your Bottom 10 (#17-26)
If you finished 2nd the previous year:
1 player randomly selected from your #8-15
1 player randomly selected from your Bottom 10 (#17-26)
If you finished 3rd the previous year:
1 player randomly selected from your #10-17
1 player randomly selected from your Bottom 9 (#18-26)
If you finished 4th the previous year:
1 player randomly selected from your #13-20
1 player randomly selected from your Bottom 9 (#18-26)
If you finished 5th-12th (missed the playoffs):
1 player randomly selected from your #15-22
1 player randomly selected from your Bottom 5 (#22-26)

It will most likely never happen that every team will have their entire "Top 26" with 3+ years of service. However, no matter how many years of service they have, your team will have a top 26 ranking. Then, those that do not qualify will be removed from the random selection process. For example, you finished 4th but only have 2 players in the #10-17 range. One of these 2 players will be randomly selected. As long as you have at least one player in each of the brackets above, they're up for selection. If you don't have one player in each bracket, your players will then be selected randomly from the lowest "in-between" bracket until you have 2 players selected. If players must be selected from your uppermost “in-between” bracket (example, #6-10 for 3rd place finisher), you may select yourself the player(s) to fill your 2 selections. If you only have 2 or fewer eligible players for selection, they will all be selected. If you have 1 or none eligible, that 1 or none will be selected respectively.

Off Season Announcement
Each off season, there will be an announcement of selections. We will be announcing players entering their "contract year". In order to do this in the off season, players will be up for selection if they've completed 2+ years of service. We will be announcing these in advance so owners have enough time to manage their team for future change.
Only concerning 2-year selections: This is assuming they will complete 20+ match ups that "contract year". However, if towards the end of the season it is impossible for them to reach 20 match ups (and qualify for 3 years), they will be replaced by the same selection process for their appropriate bracket.

Trades + Adding/Dropping
You are allowed to trade, add, and drop players in "contract years" like any other player. If you acquire a player in a "contract year", you are responsible for him in addition to the 2 players that were already selected on your team. The same rules apply following the season (you may give him up to the off season draft or sacrifice 2 other top 26 players to take his place)

The off season draft
The annual off season draft will mix both the selected players 'cut' from their teams and any other player (including minor and major leagues) into an available drafting pool. The draft will be at least long enough to accommodate the selections of all of the 'cut' players and then some.
The off season draft will NOT be serpentine style. It will be a traditional order draft. The league champion from the previous season will have the last pick of every round. The order of every off season draft will depend on the previous year’s standings:
Picks #1-8 will be a random order of every team that missed the playoffs. This is to prevent teams from intentionally losing to gain a better draft spot. Also, to prevent the same lucky team from getting the top pick every round, all 8 non-playoff teams will experience picks #1-8 an equal amount of times. For example, if the draft is 16 rounds, these 8 teams will experience pick #1 of a certain round twice, pick #2 twice, pick #3 twice, etc through #8.
Picks #9-12 will be the reverse order of the playoff finishers, with 1st place receiving pick #12.
I will post the specific order of the draft far enough in advance for everyone to prepare.

Following the off season draft
After the off season draft, your team will have more than 40 players. You must cut your roster to 40 players (not counting DL) within one week of the regular season, to allow time for any preseason roster transactions.

Every player you acquire from the off season draft that was previously cut from a team (the "selections"), will have their "years of service" reset to 0. But, these players will not count as rookies. Tallying years of service will happen as it did normally, on a season by season basis of 20+ match ups.

Each team will have 2 DL slots. Only after Fantrax has placed a red “DL” (or similar) next to your player’s name can you place him in one of your available IR slots. When a player is occupying the IR slot, you have a free space on your team to add a free agent without dropping anyone. However, as with the usual Fantrax rules, if a player comes off the real life DL (Fantrax no longer shows the red “DL” next to his name) you may not do any call ups/send downs/free agent moves/trades until he is removed from your IR slot and your roster remains at 40 players max (plus anyone else on the IR). In this instance, you may still make changes to your daily lineups. A player can remain in the IR slot as long as you’d like, but your rosters will be locked from any sort of changes by me when he isn’t on MLB's DL. This is something else the site will allow you to do, but you are not allowed to do.
Last edited by pvhawkeye on Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby mkultra » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:59 pm

What are you hoping to achieve with this system? Honestly, if it takes that long to explain, it's not a good system. People will wind up misunderstanding the rules down the road.
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby RotoValue » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:57 pm

What is it about salary caps that you don't like? I strongly agree that simpler rules are almost always better, and that confusion over the rules can be quite a negative. Nobody likes to feel like they're being cheated (even, or perhaps especially, someone who simply didn't understand the rules!)

First settle on what you want to achieve, and then you can design or use existing format to achieve it.

Salary cap strikes me as the simplest keeper method, because then requiring higher annual salaries for long-term deals both mimics real baseball and prevents someone from simply keeping a Trout or Harper at below market salary for years because they were lucky (or skilled) enough to get him early.

But a salary cap does tend to imply an auction league, although I suppose one could use external auction values from some site in lieu of actual auction prices in your own league...
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:43 pm

It's not that I hate salaries, it's just that the overall league consensus was to make it simple. This includes using the traditional draft over an auction style, and not having to number crunch salaries. While my post is about 2 novels long, it's taken directly from the league rules/constitution. Especially with a couple new to fantasy baseball players I needed to spell out every little detail and make sure there were no gray areas for owners to exploit. The system may seem very complicated if you skim it (which I would do reading someone else's post), but if you're in the league you would read it a couple of times and ask questions if you didn't understand. To me, it's simpler for everyone to follow than the salaries.

In a nutshell: You can protect 5 players. Besides them, your top 26 performers will be at risk of being "selected". Selected players will be cut from your team and put in the offseason draft pool. 2 will be selected if they have been active on your team 3+ years. Selections are random, but are more forgiving for those that missed playoffs. If you want to keep a selected player instead of losing him, you must select 3 other top 26 performers to be lost in his place (said 2 previously).
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby mkultra » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:36 pm

pvhawkeye wrote:In a nutshell: You can protect 5 players. Besides them, your top 26 performers will be at risk of being "selected". Selected players will be cut from your team and put in the offseason draft pool. 2 will be selected if they have been active on your team 3+ years. Selections are random, but are more forgiving for those that missed playoffs. If you want to keep a selected player instead of losing him, you must select 3 other top 26 performers to be lost in his place (said 2 previously).


This is unfortunately not any more clear to me. You say that the "selected" players are random, but two of them are not if they've been on your team for 3 years, and it's "less random" for teams not in the playoffs? And none of that matters, because I can always swap out a selected player for a couple other guys on my squad? Eh?

Dude. Simplify. I agree with RotoValue's suggestion to identify your goals first, then work backwards. Plenty of people have put together successful leagues- don't try and reinvent what's worked for others.
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:51 pm

Well, you replace the selected players with 3 that must be in your top 26. Our rosters are 40 players. Even then it's hard to forecast how successful this system will work and how owners will play it.
There could be an easier way to do it, I don't deny that. I could maybe do a "contract" system that keeps track of total years of service for your active team and you must stay within a given total cap. What do you think?
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby mkultra » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:22 pm

Again, it depends on your goals, but you could certainly do that- you'd say, for example:

  • You have 30 total contract years to spread across your squad
  • You must keep at least 15 players
  • No player may be kept longer than 5 years

You'd have to figure out what the real numbers you want to use are, but that's the gist. Note, however, that the downside of a system like this is that it doesn't reward long-term "dynasty" play- grabbing a prospect while in the minors and riding his rise to superstardom.
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:30 pm

mkultra wrote:Note, however, that the downside of a system like this is that it doesn't reward long-term "dynasty" play- grabbing a prospect while in the minors and riding his rise to superstardom.


Yeah that's one of the main goals. The other being to recycle some players but not to the extent of redrafting much more than 5 players per team per year. Was thinking of having 5 keepers you could keep forever, and the years of service "budget" only apply to the 5 non-keepers
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby pvhawkeye » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:32 pm

Another thing to keep in mind is we have a 26 man active, and 14 inactive. You must acquire a certain amount of match ups on the active roster to gain a "year". So you get to call up and send down when you want
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Re: Dynasty League Unique Player Movements - Thoughts?

Postby RotoValue » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:38 am

I'm still not sure I follow your model.

40-man roster.

I can designate 5 keepers. These people will be on my team no matter what.

Of my best remaining 26 (why not 35?), they are at risk of being "selected", which means they're put into the draft pool, where any owner (including me?) could pick them at the draft.

If I made the playoffs, I'm more likely to have players selected from my roster than if I didn't.

If I want to keep a selected player, I could choose to put 3 more players from my top 26 (I'm curious how this is defined) into the pool instead of the guy who was selected.

Is that the basic idea?

It certainly seems complex to someone on the outside. Giving each owner some sort of salary cap, and then using a particular source to set salaries for players (there are plenty freely available on the web, many for free) strikes me as a rather fair way to handle keepers.

One potential flaw I see in your present model: if I can always pick a top 5 that are frozen, an owner can lock up very good players for quite a long time. If it's a 12 team league, then the top 40-50 players in most owner's rankings would always be kept by their current teams. A draft (or auction) without superstars seems like it would be less fun. But maybe I'm missing some other restrictions on whom you can protect in your top 5 to ensure that periodically a Pujols or Cabrera goes into the draft pool.

Again, this is where an auction-based keeper system can be quite good. You can benefit from nabbing Mike Trout early, but the longer you make his contract, the more you have to pay each year, so you strike a balance between rewarding the guy who finds the young star for a few years, and making sure that eventually the star hits the open market. That's very much like real baseball (arb years, then free agency, but can sign a longer deal at above arbitration levels in return for pushing back the free agency period).
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