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New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby thedude » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:36 pm

kab21 wrote:
thedude wrote:
Very different reasons. The lifetime band for gambling are handed out because those offenses threatened undermined the public confidence that the outcome of games was legitimate and not the product of players or a manager attempting to lose.

Suspensions for tampering with evidence serve are handed out because the actions of the player hindered an investigation into an other offense. These suspensions are severe because it makes the investigation into the underlying offense difficult but has nothing to do with public confidence in the integrity of the sport. It is the underlying offense that undermines public confidence (and that underlying offense is not nearly as destructive as gambling/fixing games).


Of course they are different reasons but I think this reason is serious enough for the entire book to be thrown at him. I guess we differ on exactly how serious tampering with evidence is.


I think it is very serious. I just believe that fixing games/coverting with gamblers is more dangerous to the sport. Game fixing nearly killed the sport after the White Sox scandal, and the 1877 Louisville Grays scandal. Joe Jackson and Jim Devlin were properly banned for life because they fixed games and cost their teams the World Series for the former and the pennant for the latter. Tampering with evidence is reprehensible, but it is not nearly as damaging to the game.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby jackie hayes » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:48 pm

ARod's own doctor told WFAN that there was no quad strain. (H/t rotoworld.) So just when you thought that situation couldn't get any uglier...
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby SecretAgentMan » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:43 pm

jackie hayes wrote:ARod's own doctor told WFAN that there was no quad strain. (H/t rotoworld.) So just when you thought that situation couldn't get any uglier...


Read this about that doc:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... er=ya5nbcs

Arod apparently may not only have gone to a doc that did not review the results, but went to a roids doctor (though there is some debate as to if it is the same guy).

"Gross’s own bio states that he’s “he is currently enrolled in a fellowship in anti-aging and restorative medicine and is working towards board certification form the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.” And the New York Daily News is now reporting that Gross was reprimanded by the New Jersey Attorney General earlier this year for “failing to adequately ensure proper patience treatment involving the prescribing of hormones, including steroids.”"
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby jackie hayes » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:05 pm

SecretAgentMan wrote:
jackie hayes wrote:ARod's own doctor told WFAN that there was no quad strain. (H/t rotoworld.) So just when you thought that situation couldn't get any uglier...


Read this about that doc:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/ ... er=ya5nbcs

Arod apparently may not only have gone to a doc that did not review the results, but went to a roids doctor (though there is some debate as to if it is the same guy).

"Gross’s own bio states that he’s “he is currently enrolled in a fellowship in anti-aging and restorative medicine and is working towards board certification form the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.” And the New York Daily News is now reporting that Gross was reprimanded by the New Jersey Attorney General earlier this year for “failing to adequately ensure proper patience treatment involving the prescribing of hormones, including steroids.”"


Eh...sounds pretty speculative at this point (on the doctor). I just thought it was funny that ARod was enlisting outside help in his PR war on the Yankees.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby kab21 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:41 pm

thedude wrote:
I think it is very serious. I just believe that fixing games/coverting with gamblers is more dangerous to the sport. Game fixing nearly killed the sport after the White Sox scandal, and the 1877 Louisville Grays scandal. Joe Jackson and Jim Devlin were properly banned for life because they fixed games and cost their teams the World Series for the former and the pennant for the latter. Tampering with evidence is reprehensible, but it is not nearly as damaging to the game.


Of course the Black Sox were worse but why should ARod's offense have to be comparable to the Black Sox scandal? that is pretty much the logic in the above paragraph. Getting busted and allegedly going to extraordinary lengths to cover it up should result in a massive suspension. Perhaps not lifetime. Perhaps a 5 yr suspension ending his career but allowing him back in post career (if anybody wanted him for anything).
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:04 am

“As you know, it is the Yankees’ desire to have Alex return to the lineup as soon as possible. And we have done everything to try and accomplish this.


What a crock. Cashman is about as truthful as Braun and A-Rod. I'm sure it's coming from the top, though.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby BronXBombers51 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 am

Lofunzo wrote:
“As you know, it is the Yankees’ desire to have Alex return to the lineup as soon as possible. And we have done everything to try and accomplish this.


What a crock. Cashman is about as truthful as Braun and A-Rod. I'm sure it's coming from the top, though.


Well he can't exactly come out and say the Yankees don't want him and are using every excuse to keep him off the field.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby ramble2 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:45 am

SecretAgentMan wrote:And good for the MLBPA in finally realizing that they serve all their constituency and not just a few cheaters who are hurting the reputations of all of them. Someone seems to have woken up over there and gotten their moral compass fixed.

Second this. One of the great untold stories about this era is the internal debates between MLB players over PEDs. I remember when (maybe ten years ago?) every White Sox player tried to refuse to take the PED tests. Their hope was that other teams would do the same. This wasn't in protest of drug testing, but to try and force a more serious response from MLB and MLBPA. If I remember correctly, if a player refused to take an exam that counted as a 'positive' result. MLB and MLBPA were still in their denial stages, and had cooked up some deal that said that only if some % of players came out positive would serious engagement with the issue ensue. The White Sox players were trying to force the hand of those organizations.

I may be screwing up the details of what happened (and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong), but I always thought that was a pretty fascinating story that got buried pretty quickly. If anyone out there is an aspiring writer, that strikes me as a pretty meaty subject to tackle.

There is one prominent example of writing on this internal debate: Doug Glanville. His best years came at the height of the steroid era, which probably negatively effected his market value (given his skill set). He's written a bit about this, including a nice little retrospective piece on McGwire for the NYTimes.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby jackie hayes » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:04 pm

ramble2 wrote:Second this. One of the great untold stories about this era is the internal debates between MLB players over PEDs. I remember when (maybe ten years ago?) every White Sox player tried to refuse to take the PED tests. Their hope was that other teams would do the same. This wasn't in protest of drug testing, but to try and force a more serious response from MLB and MLBPA. If I remember correctly, if a player refused to take an exam that counted as a 'positive' result. MLB and MLBPA were still in their denial stages, and had cooked up some deal that said that only if some % of players came out positive would serious engagement with the issue ensue. The White Sox players were trying to force the hand of those organizations.

I may be screwing up the details of what happened (and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong), but I always thought that was a pretty fascinating story that got buried pretty quickly. If anyone out there is an aspiring writer, that strikes me as a pretty meaty subject to tackle.

There is one prominent example of writing on this internal debate: Doug Glanville. His best years came at the height of the steroid era, which probably negatively effected his market value (given his skill set). He's written a bit about this, including a nice little retrospective piece on McGwire for the NYTimes.


Wasn't quite all of them, but a good number (16):

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseba ... eroids_ap/

Also, Glanville was always a good read. Is he still writing columns? I don't read much from the NYT now that the paywall is up.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:23 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
“As you know, it is the Yankees’ desire to have Alex return to the lineup as soon as possible. And we have done everything to try and accomplish this.


What a crock. Cashman is about as truthful as Braun and A-Rod. I'm sure it's coming from the top, though.


Well he can't exactly come out and say the Yankees don't want him and are using every excuse to keep him off the field.


I understand that but he could just say nothing or he could do what he did in today's conference call and just issue a bunch of "no comment", which is the same as saying nothing.
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