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New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby dannahann » Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:58 pm

J35J wrote:
Iggy wrote:
abrage22 wrote:This is why I take all the stuff on this site with a grain of salt, even if it comes from the more "knowledgeable", "expert" members.
"There's no way they could every suspend Braun" they said... "Draft him with no worries" they said...
;-7


I agree ... I remember there was a poll as to 'who should be pick # 1' and many 'experts' said it was clearly Braun even though there were drug issues.

In one of my pools I lucked into the # 1 pick ... I took Cabrera



Why anyone would blindly follow what anyone says is ridiculous...not even talking just fantasy sports, but everything. You should always be doing your own research on all topics no matter what the consensus is.

Besides on this same site there were plenty of people saying anything we think we know about suspensions or appeals or timing or any of this was pure assumption. Plenty of us stated there were enough concerns with Braun to prevent us from taking him before safer choices, some had him out of their top 10. I'm sure every site similar to this had significant disagreement as to how sure a top 3 pick Braun was. And just like us I'm sure there was also disagreement as to when/if/ or how significant any suspensions might be, as recently as this weekend. Completely unfair to single this site out.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby SecretAgentMan » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:30 pm

Joe Mauer wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:Off of Rotoworld:

"USA Today's Bob Nightengale reports that Alex Rodriguez has no intention of negotiating a settlement with Major League Baseball and would appeal any potential suspension.
A report earlier Tuesday from CBS Evening News’ Jim Axelrod said that A-Rod is looking to cut a deal with MLB, but Nightengale is hearing otherwise. Axelrod's report says that the third baseman could be looking at a possible lifetime ban from MLB. CBS Sports' Jon Heyman reported Monday that A-Rod's suspension is expected to be announced within the next 2-3 weeks. "


YES! I really hope A-Roid's vanity leads him to fighting this and appealing and not doing the plea agreement. Please, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!! let this be the case. I want the book thrown at him HARD. Kick him out of baseball and have him appeal that. I soooo want that!

On a side note, I like that Chris Davis has gone on record that he is chasing the #61 when it comes to homers in a season. Once I heard that, I became an instant fan of his.



Well if he gets a lifetime ban, then he has nothing to lose in an appeal. I suspect that if the Commish has the goods to think lifetime ban, then the evidence has to be completely damning. Most Yankee fans can't stand ARoid and a lifetime suspension not only removes the jerk from the team but also gets us out of that Hank Steinbrenner screw up of a contract...win-win.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:33 pm

As much as I would like to see him gone at this point, I don't see any way how he can go from zero failed tests to a lifetime ban, no matter how damning the evidence is against him.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:41 pm

Lofunzo wrote:As much as I would like to see him gone at this point, I don't see any way how he can go from zero failed tests to a lifetime ban, no matter how damning the evidence is against him.


Me neither. I can see 150 games possibly but I'd be stunned with a ban.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby SecretAgentMan » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:51 pm

Lofunzo wrote:As much as I would like to see him gone at this point, I don't see any way how he can go from zero failed tests to a lifetime ban, no matter how damning the evidence is against him.


First off, he has already admitted to cheating in the past albeit before the penalties were in place.

Secondly, the same way Pete Rose got banned can be applied. He not only got busted for PEDs, but supposedly tried to buy the evidence against him and otherwise interferred with the investigation in what could be interpretted as a criminal act. Call it conduct detrimental to the game, obstruction of justice, attempted bribery, etc. as taking roids or whatever he was using without a prescription is a crime and any attempt to pay others to cover that up is obstruction and attempted bribery at the very least and contrary to the best interests of the game and the intent of the agreement on PEDs between the players and the owners. Of course this is not a criminal court, but Rose was banned for doing something legal but against the highest of baseball's by-laws effectively and then lying about it. It is not a stretch to view this as equally as bad imo. We shall see if the commish has the evidence to go this route and make it stick.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Lofunzo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:09 pm

SecretAgentMan wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:As much as I would like to see him gone at this point, I don't see any way how he can go from zero failed tests to a lifetime ban, no matter how damning the evidence is against him.


First off, he has already admitted to cheating in the past albeit before the penalties were in place.

Secondly, the same way Pete Rose got banned can be applied. He not only got busted for PEDs, but supposedly tried to buy the evidence against him and otherwise interferred with the investigation in what could be interpretted as a criminal act. Call it conduct detrimental to the game, obstruction of justice, attempted bribery, etc. as taking roids or whatever he was using without a prescription is a crime and any attempt to pay others to cover that up is obstruction and attempted bribery at the very least and contrary to the best interests of the game and the intent of the agreement on PEDs between the players and the owners. Of course this is not a criminal court, but Rose was banned for doing something legal but against the highest of baseball's by-laws effectively and then lying about it. It is not a stretch to view this as equally as bad imo. We shall see if the commish has the evidence to go this route and make it stick.


Even with everything that you said, I don't see how he goes from no punishment before this all came down to a lifetime ban. Sure, he admitted to prior use. That didn't matter as far as punishment before so I don't see how that would escalate this to permanent banishment.

I'd like to avoid comparisons to the Pete Rose incident because I see them as completely different.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:14 pm

They said on ESPN (maybe speculatively) that the MLB felt they had enough evidence on Braun to warrant two separate offenses, which is why they negotiated a remainder of the season suspension to "call it even". If there's enough evidence ("reams and reams" of it as per ESPN) to link A-Rod to several "offenses", I suppose its possible. I would be surprised to see it, but there's also a small part of me that I don't think would. I'm very interested to see how it all plays out. Probably more interested than I've ever been on the subject. I've never had a real strong feeling one way or another, and really still don't, but my interest is certainly being held.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby kab21 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:16 am

Lofunzo wrote:
Even with everything that you said, I don't see how he goes from no punishment before this all came down to a lifetime ban. Sure, he admitted to prior use. That didn't matter as far as punishment before so I don't see how that would escalate this to permanent banishment.

I'd like to avoid comparisons to the Pete Rose incident because I see them as completely different.


I consider tampering with evidence (and I'm assuming an attempt to destroy it) to be a gigantic offense even if it doesn't go to criminal court. Worthy of a lifetime ban for similar reasons that Rose or the Black Sox received lifetime bans.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby thedude » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:58 am

kab21 wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Even with everything that you said, I don't see how he goes from no punishment before this all came down to a lifetime ban. Sure, he admitted to prior use. That didn't matter as far as punishment before so I don't see how that would escalate this to permanent banishment.

I'd like to avoid comparisons to the Pete Rose incident because I see them as completely different.


I consider tampering with evidence (and I'm assuming an attempt to destroy it) to be a gigantic offense even if it doesn't go to criminal court. Worthy of a lifetime ban for similar reasons that Rose or the Black Sox received lifetime bans.


Very different reasons. The lifetime band for gambling are handed out because those offenses threatened undermined the public confidence that the outcome of games was legitimate and not the product of players or a manager attempting to lose.

Suspensions for tampering with evidence serve are handed out because the actions of the player hindered an investigation into an other offense. These suspensions are severe because it makes the investigation into the underlying offense difficult but has nothing to do with public confidence in the integrity of the sport. It is the underlying offense that undermines public confidence (and that underlying offense is not nearly as destructive as gambling/fixing games).
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby kab21 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:00 pm

thedude wrote:
Very different reasons. The lifetime band for gambling are handed out because those offenses threatened undermined the public confidence that the outcome of games was legitimate and not the product of players or a manager attempting to lose.

Suspensions for tampering with evidence serve are handed out because the actions of the player hindered an investigation into an other offense. These suspensions are severe because it makes the investigation into the underlying offense difficult but has nothing to do with public confidence in the integrity of the sport. It is the underlying offense that undermines public confidence (and that underlying offense is not nearly as destructive as gambling/fixing games).


Of course they are different reasons but I think this reason is serious enough for the entire book to be thrown at him. I guess we differ on exactly how serious tampering with evidence is.
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