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New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Kimbos Beard » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:49 pm

Izenhart wrote:
J35J wrote:Yawn.


There is WAAAAYYYYYY too much money to be made for guys to quite trying to get an advantage somehow. All it takes is 1 or 2 good seasons and you will get a huge contract....even if you do eventually get caught. There is every incentive in the world to juice up and almost none to not juice up.


And this is the problem. Either make the punishments more severe or this is what baseball will continue to be. I say hit them in the wallet more and allow teams the option of voiding the contract and suspend players for a year on first offense. Harsh, potentially unfair and will probably never happen, but if what's in place now isn't working then change will come eventually.


Melky got popped in August can you imagine if he had made it to the offseason and signed a Nick Swisher type deal 4 years 56 million, and then got popped. The MLBPA has been out there saying they are all about getting the sport clean, but I think they would fight the "voiding contract" angle. I happen to agree with you though, the ability to void a contract seems a completely fair option.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby jorgesca » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:15 pm

Craig Calcaterra via Twitter:
"Be careful with accusations re: Gio Gonzalez. None of the substances linked to him (or his father) in the Miami report are banned."

The evidence against Gio that’s public so far is a notebook documentation, “Order 1.c.1 with Zinc/MIC/… and Aminorip. For Gio and charge $1,000.”

Aminorip is not banned, it is a protein supplement.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:18 pm

jorgesca wrote:Craig Calcaterra via Twitter:
"Be careful with accusations re: Gio Gonzalez. None of the substances linked to him (or his father) in the Miami report are banned."

The evidence against Gio that’s public so far is a notebook documentation, “Order 1.c.1 with Zinc/MIC/… and Aminorip. For Gio and charge $1,000.”

Aminorip is not banned, it is a protein supplement.


Yet Gio said he never met or spoke with Bosch or used anything provided by him. :-?
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:55 pm

Yeah that's a mistake by Gio to say what he did. It's a lot easier to prove that he knew Bosch than it is to prove he used PEDs. Even if its true, it doesn't help him by saying it.

As for voiding contracts, I can't ever see that happening. You'd incentivize teams to slip a bunch of Androgel into the shampoo bottles of players that have huge burdensome contracts, haha. "Oh, Vernon Wells tested positive for elevated testosterone? We'll just cancel that contract, thankyouverymuch."
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby BalataGrande » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:43 pm

It has always seemed to me that NOONE really wants to clean up the PED "problem". I've been saying this since they started in on Bonds years ago. If you REALLY want to solve the problem, make it a mandatory 1 year suspension for the first offense, lifetime suspension for the second. Make the punishment severe enough to put more risk than reward........but, alas, I don't think either side REALLY wants this problem solved......
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby mweir145 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:30 pm

Just legalize PEDs in sports and get it over with already. It's never going to stop anyway and it would save us from all the endless sanctimonious moralizing.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby kab21 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:16 pm

mweir145 wrote:Just legalize PEDs in sports and get it over with already. It's never going to stop anyway and it would save us from all the endless sanctimonious moralizing.


A valid argument if ballplayers would only take the substances that they are currently taking but that wouldn't be the case. Things would just get ridiculous. I really don't have a problem with the way things are currently. Players are taking some designer steroids and some are getting caught. I don't really understand anyone that acts like the morality police regarding such things.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby SecretAgentMan » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:16 am

Skin Blues wrote:Yeah that's a mistake by Gio to say what he did. It's a lot easier to prove that he knew Bosch than it is to prove he used PEDs. Even if its true, it doesn't help him by saying it.

As for voiding contracts, I can't ever see that happening. You'd incentivize teams to slip a bunch of Androgel into the shampoo bottles of players that have huge burdensome contracts, haha. "Oh, Vernon Wells tested positive for elevated testosterone? We'll just cancel that contract, thankyouverymuch."



Not really...that is against the law already and if caught owners\gms would go to jail and be subject to huge civil penalties. Even if you want to ignore that, under the current agreement a team would just have to do that 3 times instead of once to achieve the same result...i.e. a lifetime suspension. Brian Cashman is not spiking Arod's shampoo (and cashman is certainly crazy or could get his psycho mistress to do it lol).

Voiding the contract is perfectly reasonable. You get caught and lose your appeal, you pay the price.
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby SecretAgentMan » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:26 am

BalataGrande wrote:It has always seemed to me that NOONE really wants to clean up the PED "problem". I've been saying this since they started in on Bonds years ago. If you REALLY want to solve the problem, make it a mandatory 1 year suspension for the first offense, lifetime suspension for the second. Make the punishment severe enough to put more risk than reward........but, alas, I don't think either side REALLY wants this problem solved......


Yup...I would go two year supension and void of contract on first offense. Lifetime ban on second.

The owners have no incentive to cleanup the game as HRs sell (it is as simple as that and it is not them that put their health a risk). The player's union is just concerned with contract money and raising the ceiling\value of salaries overall. They do not care how that is achieved or whether one of their members kills themselves or shortens their life in the process (to say nothing of casting a shadow on the reputation of every clean player in the league). It is a sad commentary as they should be the ones policing it and looking after the interests of all their members not just trying to get the most money out of owners no matter what the cost in integrity, credibility or the health of their members. They are literally helping to underwrite the most corrupt and loathsome of their membership at the expense of all others which you would think would not sit well with the bulk of the players (assuming the bulk of them are not cheating as well).
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Re: New Steroid Reports - gio gonzalez, nelson cruz

Postby jtsandwich » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:29 am

Izenhart wrote:
J35J wrote:Yawn.


There is WAAAAYYYYYY too much money to be made for guys to quite trying to get an advantage somehow. All it takes is 1 or 2 good seasons and you will get a huge contract....even if you do eventually get caught. There is every incentive in the world to juice up and almost none to not juice up.


And this is the problem. Either make the punishments more severe or this is what baseball will continue to be. I say hit them in the wallet more and allow teams the option of voiding the contract and suspend players for a year on first offense. Harsh, potentially unfair and will probably never happen, but if what's in place now isn't working then change will come eventually.


I would have to agree with the contract voiding. Players are misleading the team they have negotiated a contract with and the team then suffers for it. in return the fans suffer. Voiding A-Rods contract would make guys at least question if taking the risk is in fact worth the reward.
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