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Justin Upton to the Braves

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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby kab21 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:54 pm

I said it in the other thread but the DBacks made a decision that Upton was not going to be part of the team. And once they did that they lost trade leverage. This has to be a very disappointing offseason for a DBacks fan. Upton and Bauer gone for relatively mediocre returns. Yeah Prado is a nice player but that's about the only nice player that they got.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Ender » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 pm

I still think Delgado will have a nicer career than Bauer but that is because I'm just not a Bauer guy at all.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby OBPlover » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:01 pm

Basically, here's why they signed Cody Ross and traded Upton. It has to do with management's belief that "grim and gritty" wins you ballgames more than actual talent, stats or other things people look for in the fantasy world.

That being said, in terms of immediately useful pieces, the trade is in effect, Cody Ross+Martin Prado+Randy Delgado for Justin Upton. From a fantasy perspective it sucks due to Jupton's enormous upside but from a practical level, it's not really all that bad.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:56 am

That is the major reason but I'll be totally honest with you. The Braves have downgraded at OF on the season and the DBacks have upgraded their starting roster on the year. The deals are not horrible, they just involve overrated players for underrated players. The DBack franchise as a whole is probably weaker, but their roster for this year alone is stronger.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:06 am

OBPlover wrote:Basically, here's why they signed Cody Ross and traded Upton. It has to do with management's belief that "grim and gritty" wins you ballgames more than actual talent, stats or other things people look for in the fantasy world.

That being said, in terms of immediately useful pieces, the trade is in effect, Cody Ross+Martin Prado+Randy Delgado for Justin Upton. From a fantasy perspective it sucks due to Jupton's enormous upside but from a practical level, it's not really all that bad.

They turned a cost controlled 3 years of a budding superstar into a vastly overpaid platoon OF, lottery ticket pitching prospect, and one year of Martin Prado. On a practical level it is really bad. They don't make their team that much worse this season (same can't be said for future seasons), but there's the lost opportunity cost of making it much, much better than this. Any decent GM should be able to turn Young, Bauer and Upton into much more than an expiring contract for a decent hitting 3B and a couple crappy shortstops.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:24 am

Skin Blues wrote:
OBPlover wrote:Basically, here's why they signed Cody Ross and traded Upton. It has to do with management's belief that "grim and gritty" wins you ballgames more than actual talent, stats or other things people look for in the fantasy world.

That being said, in terms of immediately useful pieces, the trade is in effect, Cody Ross+Martin Prado+Randy Delgado for Justin Upton. From a fantasy perspective it sucks due to Jupton's enormous upside but from a practical level, it's not really all that bad.

They turned a cost controlled 3 years of a budding superstar into a vastly overpaid platoon OF, lottery ticket pitching prospect, and one year of Martin Prado. On a practical level it is really bad. They don't make their team that much worse this season (same can't be said for future seasons), but there's the lost opportunity cost of making it much, much better than this. Any decent GM should be able to turn Young, Bauer and Upton into much more than an expiring contract for a decent hitting 3B and a couple crappy shortstops.


Again you are grossly overrating what they gave up and underrating what they got back. T his is nowhere near an awful deal. Young had no value at all, Bauer is only a marginal SP prospect at this point and Upton isn't an upgrade over Prado. They did give up some value on overall cheap years but that is about it. I do not think they maximized their players from a trading standpoint, i will give you that fact completely. But I do think the DBacks improved for 2013 from these trades and it really isn't close so I get why they did it. This is a short term upgrade for long term downgrade type of deal. I think this deal is good for the Braves but on the same front I think this 2013 Braves roster is weaker than the 2012 one, they have downgraded overall from a positional standpoint.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby kaiser » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:38 am

Ender wrote:That is the major reason but I'll be totally honest with you. The Braves have downgraded at OF on the season and the DBacks have upgraded their starting roster on the year. The deals are not horrible, they just involve overrated players for underrated players. The DBack franchise as a whole is probably weaker, but their roster for this year alone is stronger.


Martin Prado is my favorite player of the last decade, as evidenced by the signature that I have used here for a few years. I've watched Prado play every game. He is a down-in-the-dirt, hard core, team-first, always hustling ball player. There are few better from the standpoint of being a teammate and serving as a spark plug for a team.

But Justin Upton is an upgrade from Martin Prado. And with BJ and Justin Upton added to the roster, the 2013 Braves are in better position to win at the start of the season than the 2012 Braves were. There is no question in my mind.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:57 am

But Justin Upton is an upgrade from Martin Prado. And with BJ and Justin Upton added to the roster, the 2013 Braves are in better position to win at the start of the season than the 2012 Braves were. There is no question in my mind.


Bourn is a significant upgrade over BJ Upton and Justin is only a small upgrade over Prado. Losing Chipper hurts a lot as well as McCann probably starting the year on the DL. If this Braves team is better it is because of a full season of Medlen in the rotation and the young guys having another year of experience. Not because of the OF.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:30 pm

Ender wrote:Young had no value at all, Bauer is only a marginal SP prospect at this point and Upton isn't an upgrade over Prado.


Wrong on all three counts. Bauer was the #9 prospect in all of baseball last season and was then thrown into an MLB rotation as a 21 year old. That's not marginal. That's elite. Young was worth at least 4 WAR per 162 games each of the past 3 seasons (4.6, 4.6 and then 2.8 in 100 games last season). That's quite valuable; 4 WAR outfielders don't grow on trees. Upton was worth about the same over that 3 year span and Prado was not far behind. Young for Prado would have been a decent trade, actually. Replace him with Eaton and still have Upton and Kubel on the corners with Parra as 4th OF, and invest the $26M they donated to Cody Ross on some decent bullpen arms not named Heath Bell. But instead they got a couple no-hit shortstops that are fringe MLBers. Anyway, it's pretty clear to any logical person that it was a string of terrible decisions based on a mindset that focuses on grit rather than talent. The funny thing is that they still might make the playoffs despite the dismantling. It did more damage to their future than to their present.
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Re: Justin Upton to the Braves

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:40 pm

It did more damage to their future than to their present.


I definitely agree with this. Long term it hurt them, not short term.
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