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What cats best represent individual player performance?

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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby daullaz » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:55 am

Ender wrote:
daullaz wrote:Your best bet may be to go to a H2H points format.


I wouldn't do this if I were you. Points leagues are pretty awful at least for what I prefer in my fantasy.

To me standard leagues are still best. As much as people talk about better representing real baseball I think the best part of fantasy baseball is juggling the various stats. You want a league set up so the maximum number of players are useful and you are constantly trying to juggle the different stats to find the perfect balance. That is why for example I don't like OBP or SLG replacing AVG. You end up with a smaller useful player field since you streamline the game towards power hitters who tend to have a higher OBP and SLG and away from the speedier types who tend to hit for a higher AVG.

If you dislike SV I would suggest you move towards SV+Hold. It makes the field of useful RP much much larger and makes bad RP who happen to be closers mostly worthless like they should be.


Since you control the point system, you can set it up in a way to maximize the usefulness of different types of players. Also, by allotting a preferential ratio of points to saves/holds, it helps with the RP quandry above. Also, you can allot points for innings pitched (or outs made), subtract them for things like H, ER, HRA and BB, and do a good job of de-emphasizing wins/quality starts -- while they still account for a few points each, the most important thing is going deep into games and not giving up a lot of negative plays.

The best thing about points leagues is that they're not a cookie-cutter as H2H/Roto leagues with the same cookie-cutter stats. You can come up with a points system that better reflects the value of each player, which is what it sounds like the OP is looking for.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Ender » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Since you control the point system, you can set it up in a way to maximize the usefulness of different types of players


But at the end of the day you just get points. You completely remove the purpose of 5x5 by doing a points league. Same reason I don't like Fantasy Football. A points league you juggle 2 stats. Points for pitchers and points for hitters. In normal leagues you juggle 10 stats. I mean some people like it and I'm fine with it. But I don't think it is a natural move for someone who likes 5x5 and just wants to mix up the stats a little bit. It is more like playing a completely different game.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby fantasyfiend » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:03 pm

I really like the idea of isoP.

I would love to try a league with stat cats like this:

BATTING CATEGORIES

OBP instead of AVG (awards good plate discipline, and includes standard batting average in the formula)
isoP instead of HR (gives a player credit for doubles, triples, HRs, instead of just HRs, but minuses out the batting average redundancy you get in a stat like SLG%)
K (counted like TOs in fantasy nba - penalizes one dimensional power hitters)
SB (for speedburners everybody likes to chase)
R+RBI (classic roto categories that are fun to follow in box scores, and don't pull away from the balance of the other categories)

PITCHING CATEGORIES

This is a lot tougher, but I would definitely want to figure out a scoring system that more accurately reflected the value of starting pitchers. As it is right now, standard 5x5 scoring is heavily tilted towards batters. I would love a scoring system that answered this imbalance.

Off the top of my head I would like to combine SVs & HLDs into one category, and against typical threads like this, I think keeping "W" is good for the game. It's a nice complimentary stat that adds an element of unpredictability to the game. Also, I don't think QS should be a replacement to "W", I think, if anything, it should be an alternative to ERA (a bad one at that, mind you).

QS is basically what ERA already covers. A pitcher getting through innings w/o giving up earned runs. It's redundant to award runs saved in two different ways.

For pitching categories I would like but this is highly debatable: SV+HLDS, ERA, WHIP, W, K

I'd even like to add a possible 6th category (innings pitched), and add some kind of rule/regulation to the league that limited streaming so that this category doesn't get abused.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:18 am

I don't think you ever want a stat where you penalize someone for playing a full lineup or maximizing playing time. That is why i personally tend to dislike things like K as a negative stat. The guy who was a bad manager and left his lineup empty in spots suddenly has an advantage in a category.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Sticky Spice » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Some great ideas...

One problem is that CBS doesn't offer Saves + Holds. I don't even see a Saves - Blown Saves.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Sticky Spice » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:40 pm

Ender wrote:I don't think you ever want a stat where you penalize someone for playing a full lineup or maximizing playing time. That is why i personally tend to dislike things like K as a negative stat. The guy who was a bad manager and left his lineup empty in spots suddenly has an advantage in a category.


I thought about this at first, too, and thought it was penalizing...

But think about what this would actually look like. A team that purposefully sabotaged his lineup to rack up zeroes would be getting hammered in all the other categories. So what if he superficially inflated his ranking in K's as he would be taking a bath in the other categories. While he and other lineup saboteurs may be finishing ahead of everyone else in K's, the teams in the hunt that are submitting a full lineup every day with the superior skills (not striking out) would be finishing ahead of the other teams doing the same thing. I think it all works out... in theory O:-)
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby jonboy418 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:13 pm

Sticky Spice wrote:
Ender wrote:I don't think you ever want a stat where you penalize someone for playing a full lineup or maximizing playing time. That is why i personally tend to dislike things like K as a negative stat. The guy who was a bad manager and left his lineup empty in spots suddenly has an advantage in a category.


I thought about this at first, too, and thought it was penalizing...

But think about what this would actually look like. A team that purposefully sabotaged his lineup to rack up zeroes would be getting hammered in all the other categories. So what if he superficially inflated his ranking in K's as he would be taking a bath in the other categories. While he and other lineup saboteurs may be finishing ahead of everyone else in K's, the teams in the hunt that are submitting a full lineup every day with the superior skills (not striking out) would be finishing ahead of the other teams doing the same thing. I think it all works out... in theory O:-)


This theory works in head to head leagues. If its's roto, then the OP has a point.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Ender » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:18 pm

Sticky Spice wrote:
Ender wrote:I don't think you ever want a stat where you penalize someone for playing a full lineup or maximizing playing time. That is why i personally tend to dislike things like K as a negative stat. The guy who was a bad manager and left his lineup empty in spots suddenly has an advantage in a category.


I thought about this at first, too, and thought it was penalizing...

But think about what this would actually look like. A team that purposefully sabotaged his lineup to rack up zeroes would be getting hammered in all the other categories. So what if he superficially inflated his ranking in K's as he would be taking a bath in the other categories. While he and other lineup saboteurs may be finishing ahead of everyone else in K's, the teams in the hunt that are submitting a full lineup every day with the superior skills (not striking out) would be finishing ahead of the other teams doing the same thing. I think it all works out... in theory O:-)



Well in roto it is more of an end of season type of thing. You can't move up in R/RBI/HR but you have a small lead in AVG and K. Suddenly you are sitting guys to try to maximize your points. It is a minor point obviously but it is something I've never liked.
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby bayside » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:15 am

Ender wrote:
If you dislike SV I would suggest you move towards SV+Hold. It makes the field of useful RP much much larger and makes bad RP who happen to be closers mostly worthless like they should be.

ohhh that reminds of what I needed to post in the "Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Baseball" thread...
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Re: What cats best represent individual player performance?

Postby Element » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:41 pm

bayside wrote:
Ender wrote:
If you dislike SV I would suggest you move towards SV+Hold. It makes the field of useful RP much much larger and makes bad RP who happen to be closers mostly worthless like they should be.

ohhh that reminds of what I needed to post in the "Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Baseball" thread...


Kind of ties in with what CBS offers ... customized stats.
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