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Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Baseball

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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby collective » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:43 pm

That isn't a bug, it is a feature.

Right?

I am sure that they will get all of the kinks worked out. I don't like the change, but will have to deal with it (and use the ca. in the URL).
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby AdvRider » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Here's yet another unwelcome change to the new site.

The old site used to (and the Canadian site still does) show the score of a game in a rain delay, while noting the delayed status.

I go to check the score of today's Natinals vs. Mets contest and what do I find?

That the game is in rain delay... and nothing more, not the score I was looking for.

In fact, the score is tied 1-1, but the anti-upgrade Yahoo site leaves that data conspicuously absent.

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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby West » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:53 pm

I have to laugh at several of the responses that I've seen here.

Constructive criticism is nice when you have a product out there that just needs a little tweaking to get it right. This is no time for constructive criticism. Yahoo's team went in this direction. Everyone knows it is terrible. Fix it, or go back to the old style. End of discussion.

White backgrounds work. Read a book on advertising. The eye is drawn to negative space. When you have a whole page of it, you can't find a single piece of stupid information. The format is terrible because humans' brains are not going to evolve to read a Yahoo player page. If they don't get that fact through their brains over at Yahoo, they'll have to face their own extinction.

It's fantasy Darwinism. Now go blah blah wah wah about why this thread is here and why I'm a jerk, or go fix the problem. I apologize to any brilliant engineers whose feelings were hurt by this post.
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:56 pm

West wrote:White backgrounds work. Read a book on advertising. The eye is drawn to negative space. When you have a whole page of it, you can't find a single piece of stupid information. The format is terrible because humans' brains are not going to evolve to read a Yahoo player page. If they don't get that fact through their brains over at Yahoo, they'll have to face their own extinction.


There are certain instances in which light text on dark background works. For example, code editors. Staring at dark text on white backgrounds for hours can cause great eye strain. The opposite is also true. Decreasing the contrast between text and background would be more neutralizing on eye strain (i.e. light grey on dark grey-black). Also, light text on dark backgrounds tends to be more favorable for some visually impaired users (i.e. dyslexics) and for reading in dark environments.

Having a clear hierarchy of elements, a defined sense of space, and excellent usage of contrast are important factors to a good design. I would say Yahoo suffers from the latter two factors.

On the other hand, it's not an outright horrible design with a few design tweaks. Eliminating that unused right space by centering the content container to the right would be a start. A dark to transparent radial gradient against the stadium background motif to increase the contrast wouldn't hurt. They've made progress to the front page too with a darker grey-black background on news headlines. For quick bits of information, such a background isn't bad for scanning. Tweaking the player pages and team pages, let alone to redesign them would be a tougher ask.

What Genie said regarding redesigns several pages back is true. There tends to be little middle ground between people who don't like change and people who think the site needs a facelift. The previous incarnation of Yahoo Sports wasn't exactly a shining example of form following function either. It needed better whitespace and a cleaner layout, while managing to deliver as much information and presenting it in a useful, intuitive way. No small feat. The approach they've taken is a bit too bold than it needed to be, but it's not beyond salvageable either.
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:50 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
West wrote:White backgrounds work. Read a book on advertising. The eye is drawn to negative space. When you have a whole page of it, you can't find a single piece of stupid information. The format is terrible because humans' brains are not going to evolve to read a Yahoo player page. If they don't get that fact through their brains over at Yahoo, they'll have to face their own extinction.


There are certain instances in which light text on dark background works. For example, code editors. Staring at dark text on white backgrounds for hours can cause great eye strain. The opposite is also true. Decreasing the contrast between text and background would be more neutralizing on eye strain (i.e. light grey on dark grey-black). Also, light text on dark backgrounds tends to be more favorable for some visually impaired users (i.e. dyslexics) and for reading in dark environments.

Having a clear hierarchy of elements, a defined sense of space, and excellent usage of contrast are important factors to a good design. I would say Yahoo suffers from the latter two factors.

On the other hand, it's not an outright horrible design with a few design tweaks. Eliminating that unused right space by centering the content container to the right would be a start. A dark to transparent radial gradient against the stadium background motif to increase the contrast wouldn't hurt. They've made progress to the front page too with a darker grey-black background on news headlines. For quick bits of information, such a background isn't bad for scanning. Tweaking the player pages and team pages, let alone to redesign them would be a tougher ask.

What Genie said regarding redesigns several pages back is true. There tends to be little middle ground between people who don't like change and people who think the site needs a facelift. The previous incarnation of Yahoo Sports wasn't exactly a shining example of form following function either. It needed better whitespace and a cleaner layout, while managing to deliver as much information and presenting it in a useful, intuitive way. No small feat. The approach they've taken is a bit too bold than it needed to be, but it's not beyond salvageable either.

Your rational and reasonable thoughts have no place round here. This is a place where bitching and moaning is classified as constructive criticism. This is the future thread where people will wonder, "hey, where did Guy Smiley go?" And be completely aloof as to why he no longer visits the Cafe. This, my friend, is not the droid you were looking for. There's no room on the soapbox for you. ;-7
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby Guy Smiley » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:42 pm

AdvRider wrote:Here's yet another unwelcome change to the new site.

The old site used to (and the Canadian site still does) show the score of a game in a rain delay, while noting the delayed status.

I go to check the score of today's Natinals vs. Mets contest and what do I find?

That the game is in rain delay... and nothing more, not the score I was looking for.

In fact, the score is tied 1-1, but the anti-upgrade Yahoo site leaves that data conspicuously absent.

Image


Sigh. Completely agree. I have sent this along.
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby Guy Smiley » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:48 pm

Knights wrote:
Guy Smiley wrote:In general comments like "it sucks" don't help. They may be true but there isn't much we can do with them. Comments asking for specific pieces of data to be displayed, where you would like to see them, examples of things you like as models, are all super helpful. They are specific and the team can take action on them. This doesn't mean everything asked for happens--you know that from Genie already--but you greatly increase your chance if you provide specifics.


One thing I'd like to see come back is a player's fielding stats by position, which used to appear in details on their Career Stats page. It would list the number of games they appeared in the field at each position and their defensive stats at that position.

While I never used that to study defensive stats, I did use it to determine a player’s position eligibility for the next season... I play in a keeper league, so I take next year's eligibility into account during trade talks, and also use it a lot in the off-season for draft prep work.

Under the new layout, the players fielding stats by position now appears towards the bottom of the player home page, but it only lists 1 position per player per season. For example, Brett Lawrie's player page lists his defensive/positional stats as only a 2B despite the fact that he only played 6 games there this season.

I am aware that under the Players header at the top of the Yahoo Baseball pages there is a line to "Position Eligibility," but that only shows if a player is eligible or not for the current season... not where he'll continue to hold eligibility for next season. For example, Mark Trumbo will not retain his 3B eligibility next season, but there's no way (as far as I know) to know that based on the Position Eligibility pages nor the new/updated player pages.

Not sure if I'm going to be in the minority in terms of my constant usage of positional eligibility research like this, but if's there's some way to re-incorporate it back into Yahoo I would find it very helpful!

Maybe even an addition (or sub-page) to the current Position Eligibility page where it can show not only an 'E' for positions where a player is eligible, but also list the number of games each player has played at each position in the current season. Maybe this wouldn’t be as big as a task, given that the table currently already shows the number of games played or started up until the point where the player meets eligibility criteria and the number is replace by a simple ‘E.’ Would there be a way to change it to ‘E (25)’ meaning that the player has eligibility has played a total of 25 games at that position in the current season? Then, in the case of Trumbo from above, his Position Eligibility at 3B for this season would read ‘E (1)’ to show that he’s eligible at 3B (based on last year’s games played), but that he’s only played 1 game at 3B this year so those of us in keepers can be aware that he won’t be 3B-eligible next season.



Knights, I have passed along the request for higher visibility for defensive stats. Good call-out. Again, I don't have any control over theses 'editorial' pages. I also like the call-out for position eligibility with fantasy baseball. To answer a question asked by another Cafe member, I will be adding a thread about feature requests for baseball 2014. For now, lets stay focused on issues with the game in this season.
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby West » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:55 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Your rational and reasonable thoughts have no place round here. This is a place where bitching and moaning is classified as constructive criticism. This is the future thread where people will wonder, "hey, where did Guy Smiley go?" And be completely aloof as to why he no longer visits the Cafe. This, my friend, is not the droid you were looking for. There's no room on the soapbox for you. ;-7


Artful Dodger made some nice counter points to what I was saying. There is a place for dark backgrounds in some instances.

I'm sorry, was I bitching and moaning? I would not say so. Some on here are going to all this trouble to classify different problems with the system. That's great for those that have the time. I have a background in advertising and style formatting. I know what works and what doesn't. I look at the format and see a failure from top to bottom. It's busy, it's confusing, you cannot find useful information quickly. I am not going into detail about what is wrong because the very CORE of the format is wrong. You cannot fix it without revamping it and simplifying it.

If you want me to go into detail, just scratching the surface: You do not need a baseball field in the background of the player pages. You can't use a black background when the whole point of the player page is to find information quickly and move on. They eliminated many of the helpful features of the player page, such as a SP's next start (already mentioned). etc, etc....

The people who created the team and player pages should hear that their format is a failure in no uncertain terms. How else will you fix a system that needs to be completely uprooted, simplified and launched again?

You think that Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel sit around and worry about people's feelings when they come up with terrible work? No, they get rid of them and find someone who knows what they are doing. Why is Guy Smiley going to run away and hide because we are being honest with him? He should not be offended because the development of this had nothing to do with him.
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:20 pm

For those who don't think Yahoo does beta testing:

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If you open new incognito tabs in your browser, you might see a test frontpage for Yahoo sports. It works in Chrome. (FWIW, if memory serves, I saw everyone's favorite current design of Yahoo Sports about a week before release.)

EDIT: Maybe they reverted to the old site because the old scoreboard is back. I can't recall what the old Yahoo Sports looked like. :-B
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Re: Touching base/taking requests re: Yahoo! Fantasy Basebal

Postby J35J » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:57 am

West wrote: I look at the format and see a failure from top to bottom. It's busy, it's confusing, you cannot find useful information quickly. I am not going into detail about what is wrong because the very CORE of the format is wrong. You cannot fix it without revamping it and simplifying it.


100% agree.
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