kaiser wrote:Here are the names from this year's official ballot. Vote for as many as you think are deserving. I'll compile results and post eventually.
Here's a link toplayer info on those new to the ballot this year, and voting totals for those returning candidates:
Sandy Alomar Jr. Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Jeff Cirillo Royce Clayton Roger Clemens Jeff Conine Steve Finley Julio Franco Shawn Green Roberto Hernandez Ryan Klesko Kenny Lofton Edgar Martinez Don Mattingly Fred McGriff Mark McGwire Jose Mesa Jack Morris Dale Murphy Rafael Palmeiro Mike Piazza Tim Raines Reggie Sanders Curt Schilling Aaron Sele Lee Smith Sammy Sosa Mike Stanton Alan Trammell Larry Walker Todd Walker David Wells Rondell White Bernie Williams Woody Williams
Those are the three that get in in '13. However, if the cloud of PED's is going to prevent Bonds or Clemens from ever gaining entry into the Hall, you don't hang just them, you hang them all.
C-Doumit, Lucroy 1B- Fielder 2B-Pedroia SS-Castro 3B-Longoria CI- Lawrie MI- H. Rameriz OF-Cargo Jennings Heyward U-Morneau Markakis Brown
SP-Price Greinke Zimmerman Moore Anderson RP-Nathan McGee Doolittle Grilli
chargerss24 wrote:if the cloud of PED's is going to prevent Bonds or Clemens from ever gaining entry into the Hall, you don't hang just them, you hang them all.
Who is "all"? Every single player from the past 50 years? 30 years? Just the guys mentioned in the Mitchell Report? Just the guys with big muscles? It's funny that the only guys that ever get suspected are muscle-bound meat heads, but the guys that get caught are pretty much evenly distributed throughout all body types and skill sets.
kaiser wrote:But after deciding that admitted steroid users were not going to get my vote, that is who I was left with as my picks.
Ya, how dare we ruin the purity of a sport that was segregated for half of it's existance, had amphetamine users, ball doctoring, game throwing, gambling, sign stealing, bat corking, and probably many other ways in which players illegally gained an advantage.
And let's ignore that the MLB basically knew what was going on and let it happen because of how many fans it brought back to the park after the 1994 strike. If anything steroid use might have saved baseball. But sure, these guys are villains and we should do our best to erase the whole era from baseball rather than accept it as part of the history of the sport.
Across the top of the website of the Hall of Fame, it says "Perserving History * Honoring Excellence * Connecting Generations". By keeping the steroids era out of the Hall of Fame you're basically ignoring the things the Hall of Fame stands for. It's more about the history of the sport than anything else and that means showcasing both the bad and the good parts of the game, not ignoring parts that you may not agree with or might shine a bad light on the sport.
kaiser wrote:But after deciding that admitted steroid users were not going to get my vote, that is who I was left with as my picks.
Ya, how dare we ruin the purity of a sport that was segregated for half of it's existance, had amphetamine users, ball doctoring, game throwing, gambling, sign stealing, bat corking, and probably many other ways in which players illegally gained an advantage.
And let's ignore that the MLB basically knew what was going on and let it happen because of how many fans it brought back to the park after the 1994 strike. If anything steroid use might have saved baseball. But sure, these guys are villains and we should do our best to erase the whole era from baseball rather than accept it as part of the history of the sport.
Across the top of the website of the Hall of Fame, it says "Perserving History * Honoring Excellence * Connecting Generations". By keeping the steroids era out of the Hall of Fame you're basically ignoring the things the Hall of Fame stands for. It's more about the history of the sport than anything else and that means showcasing both the bad and the good parts of the game, not ignoring parts that you may not agree with or might shine a bad light on the sport.
Lawd almighty.
I don't have the strength to argue for or against the PED users. As I said initially, I haven't made up my mind. If anyone wants to have this debate with GiantsFan, feel free. Ain't gonna be me.
Jeff Bagwell Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Mark McGwire Mike Piazza Curt Schilling Sammy Sosa Larry Walker
Team Izzy C Mauer 1 E5 2 Altuve 3 ARam S Cabrera CI LaRoche MI Drew O Melky, Cuddyer, Morse, Hunter, McClouth U Ortiz SP Lee, Fister, Miller, Fernandez, Lackey, RP Chapman Frieri Grilli Gregrsn Bnch 1 Hart 3 Mdlbrk 3 Rendon O Eaton P Lohse Nolasco Santana
Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Mark McGwire Mike Piazza Tim Raines Curt Schilling Alan Trammell
Piazza is going to be an interesting one IMO. Much like Bagwell his numbers shout HOF but he's a bigger guy and while there was never any proof there were rumors.
Element wrote:If I had a vote there is where mine would go. I am on the fence with the PED users. Therefore they do not get my vote ... at least for now. I have my suspicions regarding Piazza & Bagwell, but they have never really been linked to anything.
I thought about throwing some votes at Royce Clayton, but decided against it.
Are you OK with Raines knowing he did cocaine while playing?
Element wrote:If I had a vote there is where mine would go. I am on the fence with the PED users. Therefore they do not get my vote ... at least for now. I have my suspicions regarding Piazza & Bagwell, but they have never really been linked to anything.
I thought about throwing some votes at Royce Clayton, but decided against it.
Are you OK with Raines knowing he did cocaine while playing?
That should make it more impressive what he did then, shouldn't it?
I've largely stopped caring about this every year with the holier-than-thou, no-nothing writer types who decide who get in (it's kind of like those ridiculous awards they give out too), but the baseball HOF should not be taken seriously at all if it doesn't include Bonds and Clemens (who are arguably the best hitter and best pitcher in the entire history of the sport). I have little doubt that the BBWAA will let baseball down once again come January, though.
Element wrote:If I had a vote there is where mine would go. I am on the fence with the PED users. Therefore they do not get my vote ... at least for now. I have my suspicions regarding Piazza & Bagwell, but they have never really been linked to anything.
I thought about throwing some votes at Royce Clayton, but decided against it.
Are you OK with Raines knowing he did cocaine while playing?
Until there is proof that cocaine can improve one's playing ability ... yup!
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by chargerss24 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:49 pm 
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