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Epic Trade

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Re: Epic Trade

Postby ayebatter » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:47 am

kellythemick wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Loria is a businessman and treats his team as such (no differently than Rogers or many other professional sports owners). He's just far more obvious about it.

A businessman who looks at short-term profit versus long-term value.



A $158 million purchase in 2002 is hardly short term when it's at a minimum of 15% of an adult lifetime (20yr-80yr old). How much do you think Mark Cuban would pay Loria to get it ??
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby kellythemick » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:33 am

ayebatter wrote:
kellythemick wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Loria is a businessman and treats his team as such (no differently than Rogers or many other professional sports owners). He's just far more obvious about it.

A businessman who looks at short-term profit versus long-term value.



A $158 million purchase in 2002 is hardly short term when it's at a minimum of 15% of an adult lifetime (20yr-80yr old). How much do you think Mark Cuban would pay Loria to get it ??

I think we are looking at this from different perspectives. Some businessmen view their company from a position that maximizes their value over a set period of time - 1, 5, 10 years, etc. - so as to maximize their profits. Others view the company from a longer term perspective that values the health and sustainability of the entity. While Loria made have made a poor decision taking on certain contracts, raising expectations and then allowing such a short time period for meeting those expectation would seem to be counter productive if one is looking at long-term value. Especially in an industry where customer satisfaction is crucially important - there are many entertainment options available in Miami as I am sure you are aware of.
As far as the Cuban comment goes I am uncertain what the question is. What would Cuban pay? I am guessing the value of the franchise is in the $250 - $300 million dollar range. Sooo - somewhere in there? From the little I know of Cuban I would think Marlin fans would be happy if this were to happen.
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Epic Trade

Postby lastingsgriller » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:21 pm

But... History has shown us that his teams are capable of meeting those expectations in a short time. I would say that the twins are on the other end of the spectrum as far as business models go, and they have won 0 WS since 1992. Same number as the majority of MLB teams. Since the marlins became a team they have achieved the ultimate goal twice. I think only the Red Sox, Yankees, and giants can also say that.
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby kellythemick » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:01 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:But... History has shown us that his teams are capable of meeting those expectations in a short time. I would say that the twins are on the other end of the spectrum as far as business models go, and they have won 0 WS since 1992. Same number as the majority of MLB teams. Since the marlins became a team they have achieved the ultimate goal twice. I think only the Red Sox, Yankees, and giants can also say that.

Kudos to the Marlins. My question would be what impact Loria had? I suppose he was instrumental in bringing in Rodriguez and Pierre but I would contend that the majority of the components of the 2003 team were in place when he took over. As far as the short term model goes I'm guessing that there aren't many teams that have made huge improvements in one year. Anyhoooo .. my intent is only to imply that Loria might have better long term revenue if he demonstrated that he actually cared about winning and losing rather than making a quick buck - or should I saving a quick buck.
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby ayebatter » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:36 pm

kellythemick wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:But... History has shown us that his teams are capable of meeting those expectations in a short time. I would say that the twins are on the other end of the spectrum as far as business models go, and they have won 0 WS since 1992. Same number as the majority of MLB teams. Since the marlins became a team they have achieved the ultimate goal twice. I think only the Red Sox, Yankees, and giants can also say that.

Kudos to the Marlins. My question would be what impact Loria had? I suppose he was instrumental in bringing in Rodriguez and Pierre but I would contend that the majority of the components of the 2003 team were in place when he took over. As far as the short term model goes I'm guessing that there aren't many teams that have made huge improvements in one year. Anyhoooo .. my intent is only to imply that Loria might have better long term revenue if he demonstrated that he actually cared about winning and losing rather than making a quick buck - or should I saving a quick buck.


They may not be the Dodgers where McCourt got a couple of BILLION for his short stay in LA, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'd be willing to make the quick buck should Selig decide to McCourt his butt out of the league.
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby kellythemick » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:49 pm

ayebatter wrote:
kellythemick wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:But... History has shown us that his teams are capable of meeting those expectations in a short time. I would say that the twins are on the other end of the spectrum as far as business models go, and they have won 0 WS since 1992. Same number as the majority of MLB teams. Since the marlins became a team they have achieved the ultimate goal twice. I think only the Red Sox, Yankees, and giants can also say that.

Kudos to the Marlins. My question would be what impact Loria had? I suppose he was instrumental in bringing in Rodriguez and Pierre but I would contend that the majority of the components of the 2003 team were in place when he took over. As far as the short term model goes I'm guessing that there aren't many teams that have made huge improvements in one year. Anyhoooo .. my intent is only to imply that Loria might have better long term revenue if he demonstrated that he actually cared about winning and losing rather than making a quick buck - or should I saving a quick buck.


They may not be the Dodgers where McCourt got a couple of BILLION for his short stay in LA, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'd be willing to make the quick buck should Selig decide to McCourt his butt out of the league.

Very true. ;-D Of course a continuation of that philosophy by a lot of owners would probably mean the product would no longer be around since, eventually, the consumer would hopefully stop buying. :~( Wait, wait! I forgot we are talking about the U.S. consumer where the closure of Hostess creates a run on Twinkies and a whole new market on EBAY. No worries. :-°
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby thedude » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:52 pm

ayebatter wrote:
kellythemick wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:But... History has shown us that his teams are capable of meeting those expectations in a short time. I would say that the twins are on the other end of the spectrum as far as business models go, and they have won 0 WS since 1992. Same number as the majority of MLB teams. Since the marlins became a team they have achieved the ultimate goal twice. I think only the Red Sox, Yankees, and giants can also say that.

Kudos to the Marlins. My question would be what impact Loria had? I suppose he was instrumental in bringing in Rodriguez and Pierre but I would contend that the majority of the components of the 2003 team were in place when he took over. As far as the short term model goes I'm guessing that there aren't many teams that have made huge improvements in one year. Anyhoooo .. my intent is only to imply that Loria might have better long term revenue if he demonstrated that he actually cared about winning and losing rather than making a quick buck - or should I saving a quick buck.


They may not be the Dodgers where McCourt got a couple of BILLION for his short stay in LA, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'd be willing to make the quick buck should Selig decide to McCourt his butt out of the league.


Miami is not the same market as LA. Nevertheless, Loria already turned a, relatively small investment in the Montreal Expos into a large profit in the Marlins.
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:54 am

Izenhart wrote:Pierre couldn't find work this time last year. He's still a huge minus on a real team. This obviously isn't meant to fix any of their problems, but depending on who's PT he ends up stealing, it could hurt more than help.


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Re: Epic Trade

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:14 am

kellythemick wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
kellythemick wrote:Kudos to the Marlins. My question would be what impact Loria had? I suppose he was instrumental in bringing in Rodriguez and Pierre but I would contend that the majority of the components of the 2003 team were in place when he took over. As far as the short term model goes I'm guessing that there aren't many teams that have made huge improvements in one year. Anyhoooo .. my intent is only to imply that Loria might have better long term revenue if he demonstrated that he actually cared about winning and losing rather than making a quick buck - or should I saving a quick buck.


They may not be the Dodgers where McCourt got a couple of BILLION for his short stay in LA, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'd be willing to make the quick buck should Selig decide to McCourt his butt out of the league.

Very true. ;-D Of course a continuation of that philosophy by a lot of owners would probably mean the product would no longer be around since, eventually, the consumer would hopefully stop buying. :~( Wait, wait! I forgot we are talking about the U.S. consumer where the closure of Hostess creates a run on Twinkies and a whole new market on EBAY. No worries. :-°

Craigslist -- where you can trade Twinkies for sex.
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Re: Epic Trade

Postby kellythemick » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:40 am

bigh0rt wrote:
kellythemick wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
They may not be the Dodgers where McCourt got a couple of BILLION for his short stay in LA, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he'd be willing to make the quick buck should Selig decide to McCourt his butt out of the league.

Very true. ;-D Of course a continuation of that philosophy by a lot of owners would probably mean the product would no longer be around since, eventually, the consumer would hopefully stop buying. :~( Wait, wait! I forgot we are talking about the U.S. consumer where the closure of Hostess creates a run on Twinkies and a whole new market on EBAY. No worries. :-°

Craigslist -- where you can trade Twinkies for sex.

You really need to move to the left coast. Out here a box of Twinkies and a carton of Ding Dongs buys you a night of indescribable pleasure. ;-)
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