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10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs STL v. SF

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:47 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
wrveres wrote:Nice to see Holliday firing up the Giants.


seriously, that was a total effing bs slide. no way in hell was that a legal slide.


As long as he can still touch the base it is legal. The slide was complete bush league though. There is a difference between a hard slide that takes out a MI and aiming to break someone's knees. :-t :-t


I read something that said for it to be legal you have to start the slide before you get to the bag, not once you're almost over it. Either way it was bush league.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs STL v. SF

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:54 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
seriously, that was a total effing bs slide. no way in hell was that a legal slide.


As long as he can still touch the base it is legal. The slide was complete bush league though. There is a difference between a hard slide that takes out a MI and aiming to break someone's knees. :-t :-t


I read something that said for it to be legal you have to start the slide before you get to the bag, not once you're almost over it. Either way it was bush league.
They should change the rules.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs STL v. SF

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:43 am

bigh0rt wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
As long as he can still touch the base it is legal. The slide was complete bush league though. There is a difference between a hard slide that takes out a MI and aiming to break someone's knees. :-t :-t


I read something that said for it to be legal you have to start the slide before you get to the bag, not once you're almost over it. Either way it was bush league.
They should change the rules.


Or just enforce the rules they already have.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Looked clean to me. Rules-wise, anyway. It was a close play at first and the runner might have been out had he not taken Scutaro out. He's also one of their better hitters and obviously getting his bat out of the lineup is another bonus. Maybe not the most sportsmanlike thing to do but it's not against the rules and it's clearly beneficial for the Cardinals so it's hard to blame Holliday. With the rules as they are, this kind of thing will always happen, especially during the playoffs. Maybe say that if you're sliding into second on a force play you must slide to the inside of the base and the fielder can take the outside of the base. Pretty easy to enforce and doesn't really change anything, it's not like a runner is ever avoiding a tag when it's a force play, so the part of the base they slide into shouldn't matter
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:00 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Looked clean to me. Rules-wise, anyway. It was a close play at first and the runner might have been out had he not taken Scutaro out. He's also one of their better hitters and obviously getting his bat out of the lineup is another bonus. Maybe not the most sportsmanlike thing to do but it's not against the rules and it's clearly beneficial for the Cardinals so it's hard to blame Holliday. With the rules as they are, this kind of thing will always happen, especially during the playoffs. Maybe say that if you're sliding into second on a force play you must slide to the inside of the base and the fielder can take the outside of the base. Pretty easy to enforce and doesn't really change anything, it's not like a runner is ever avoiding a tag when it's a force play, so the part of the base they slide into shouldn't matter


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The rule is kind of silly in that it leaves a lot up to the ump discretion in what the runner's "intent" was. But no way in hell is Holliday's intent in this play to do anything but completely destroy Scutaro. Middle infielders are taught to stand behind the base and use it as a shield against the runner coming in that hard. When a guy jumps over the bag to break up the play, I think it can pretty easily be considered that his intent was not to reach and stay on the base, but to interfere with the fielder. It's umpires discretion, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

A runner who, in the judgment of the umpire, contacts or attempts to make contact with a fielder
with a slide or roll block that is not a bona fide effort to reach and stay on the base may be called
out for interference and, when appropriate, a double play may be called.


A batter is out when –
(m)A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play:
Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.


PS- I've complained about how I think take-out slides are stupid before, so it's not like I'm just saying this because a guy on the Giants got hurt. Contact plays like this do not belong in the sport.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:27 pm

The problem is that blatant take-out slides are never called interference if the runner can reach the base while sliding, and rules are defined by how they're enforced. I agree that this kind of thing shouldn't be allowed, but a precedent has been set, and a rule interpretation change needs to happen before anything will improve.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby RyeWhiskey » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:05 pm

Skin Blues wrote:The problem is that blatant take-out slides are never called interference if the runner can reach the base while sliding, and rules are defined by how they're enforced. I agree that this kind of thing shouldn't be allowed, but a precedent has been set, and a rule interpretation change needs to happen before anything will improve.


True, but by your own logic, Holliday ought to have at least been warned for this slide as he lept over the base - his intent was clearly not to "reach the base while sliding."
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby ayebatter » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:03 pm

RyeWhiskey wrote:
True, but by your own logic, Holliday ought to have at least been warned for this slide as he lept over the base - his intent was clearly not to "reach the base while sliding."



He clearly lept ON the base, how was he to know the dang thing was so slippery.
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Re: 10/15 Cheering/Venting Playoffs SF 7 - STL 1

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:09 am

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