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10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby Izenhart » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:34 pm

If you take away the importance of winning the division and giving home field to a WC team with a better record, you discredit the entire concept of division races. Not all divisions are equal, and having said that I'd say the Tigers would easily be a 4th place team in any other division and miss the playoffs completely, probably ending up with a worse record than they already have since they would be playing better teams more often. But this isn't college football where we pick a tourny and seed them from what we feel are the best teams. The only way to address your concern that I can see is doing away with divisions completely, and having one AL, one NL, top X teams get in. This would only work if the schedule were balanced, playing west/east coast teams an equal number of times. That will never happen, unfortunately. It would add more days off in the regular season and as it is we are starting earlier and ending later than ever before.

The Tigers won their division, and it's not their fault the rest of their division is so bad. If they had ended up winning 102 games it wouldn't have really mattered, they did what they had to do to get in, they shouldn't have to worry about winning X more games to clinch home-field in round one against a team that finished 3rd in another (stronger) division. Finishing 3rd and getting a home-field advantage over a division winner sounds about as unfair as finishing first and not getting it.

There's no perfect scenerio, I think what we have now is fine, tbh.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:43 pm

The perfect scenario (or closest we can reasonably get( is two leagues (AL/NL) with a balanced schedule and the best 4 teams from each league make the playoffs. Also make the division series 7 games long.

As it is now, the idea that winning the division is so much more important is kinda silly. The division winner already got home field advantage over the wild card team and now you have a team like the Braves (who might be the best team in the NL) which has to play a single game against a much inferior team just to get into the playoffs.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby Izenhart » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:47 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:The perfect scenario (or closest we can reasonably get( is two leagues (AL/NL) with a balanced schedule and the best 4 teams from each league make the playoffs. Also make the division series 7 games long.

As it is now, the idea that winning the division is so much more important is kinda silly. The division winner already got home field advantage over the wild card team and now you have a team like the Braves (who might be the best team in the NL) which has to play a single game against a much inferior team just to get into the playoffs.


Back before the wild card, the Braves would be going home at the end of tomorrow's games.

Even if you think they are the best team in the NL the fact is the Nats finished with a better record, and there has been plenty of teams throughout history who finished 2nd in their division to a team that was probably inferior to them.

The Braves are in the post season, and even if a 1 game playoff is a raw deal for a team so good, it's a better deal than many other teams were given pre-WC.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:10 pm

Izenhart wrote:If you take away the importance of winning the division and giving home field to a WC team with a better record, you discredit the entire concept of division races.

Quite simply, no, you don't discredit the entire concept of divisions by recognizing the wild card winner(s) as legitimate playoff contenders. Division winners get a ticket to the playoffs. That's the ultimate outcome from the regular season; entry into the tournament. Flip a coin for home field advantage, give it to the team with the best record, exclude wildcard teams and do a lottery, who cares? It's significance pales in comparison to determining who actually gets to play in the playoffs. Forcing two of the best teams in the league to a one-game play-in, to determine who gets the honour of playing the 7th best team in the playoffs is a joke. It's maybe the worst case scenario of this silly new system, but the fact that it's happening right now, and the vaunted Yankees might be the team that gets the short end of the stick may be enough to euthanize this stupid idea after one season.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:14 pm

Izenhart wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:The perfect scenario (or closest we can reasonably get( is two leagues (AL/NL) with a balanced schedule and the best 4 teams from each league make the playoffs. Also make the division series 7 games long.

As it is now, the idea that winning the division is so much more important is kinda silly. The division winner already got home field advantage over the wild card team and now you have a team like the Braves (who might be the best team in the NL) which has to play a single game against a much inferior team just to get into the playoffs.


Back before the wild card, the Braves would be going home at the end of tomorrow's games.

Even if you think they are the best team in the NL the fact is the Nats finished with a better record, and there has been plenty of teams throughout history who finished 2nd in their division to a team that was probably inferior to them.

The Braves are in the post season, and even if a 1 game playoff is a raw deal for a team so good, it's a better deal than many other teams were given pre-WC.


We're not arguing to completely do away with the WC, we're arguing that the new system for this season is bad. Go back to last season and the Braves would be in the playoffs and not have to deal with the idiocy that is this 1 game format.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:38 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Izenhart wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:The perfect scenario (or closest we can reasonably get( is two leagues (AL/NL) with a balanced schedule and the best 4 teams from each league make the playoffs. Also make the division series 7 games long.

As it is now, the idea that winning the division is so much more important is kinda silly. The division winner already got home field advantage over the wild card team and now you have a team like the Braves (who might be the best team in the NL) which has to play a single game against a much inferior team just to get into the playoffs.


Back before the wild card, the Braves would be going home at the end of tomorrow's games.

Even if you think they are the best team in the NL the fact is the Nats finished with a better record, and there has been plenty of teams throughout history who finished 2nd in their division to a team that was probably inferior to them.

The Braves are in the post season, and even if a 1 game playoff is a raw deal for a team so good, it's a better deal than many other teams were given pre-WC.


We're not arguing to completely do away with the WC, we're arguing that the new system for this season is bad. Go back to last season and the Braves would be in the playoffs and not have to deal with the idiocy that is this 1 game format.


Right, and if we went back to last season then only one of Baltimore, Oakland, Tampa Bay and LA would be in the playoffs despite all having better records than Detroit.

It's the same issue no matter how you slice it. The only way to fix it is to get rid of divisions altogether and balance the schedules. Then you can just take the top seeds for the playoffs. That will not happen though.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:50 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Izenhart wrote:
Back before the wild card, the Braves would be going home at the end of tomorrow's games.

Even if you think they are the best team in the NL the fact is the Nats finished with a better record, and there has been plenty of teams throughout history who finished 2nd in their division to a team that was probably inferior to them.

The Braves are in the post season, and even if a 1 game playoff is a raw deal for a team so good, it's a better deal than many other teams were given pre-WC.


We're not arguing to completely do away with the WC, we're arguing that the new system for this season is bad. Go back to last season and the Braves would be in the playoffs and not have to deal with the idiocy that is this 1 game format.


Right, and if we went back to last season then only one of Baltimore, Oakland, Tampa Bay and LA would be in the playoffs despite all having better records than Detroit.

It's the same issue no matter how you slice it. The only way to fix it is to get rid of divisions altogether and balance the schedules. Then you can just take the top seeds for the playoffs. That will not happen though.


It's an issue either way, but the WC teams were still better off IMO. They could get home field in the first round if I recall correctly, and they wouldn't have had to play that extra game, tiring out their players, especially their pitching.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:51 pm

BronXBombers51 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:We're not arguing to completely do away with the WC, we're arguing that the new system for this season is bad. Go back to last season and the Braves would be in the playoffs and not have to deal with the idiocy that is this 1 game format.

Right, and if we went back to last season then only one of Baltimore, Oakland, Tampa Bay and LA would be in the playoffs despite all having better records than Detroit.

It's the same issue no matter how you slice it. The only way to fix it is to get rid of divisions altogether and balance the schedules. Then you can just take the top seeds for the playoffs. That will not happen though.

The difference between last year and this year is that this year the two best teams in the league, the Rangers and Yankees, could very well be forced into a play-in game while the 7th place Tigers rest up for the second round of the playoffs. That's the problem.
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:55 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Right, but the difference between last year and this year is that this year the two best teams in the league, Texas and New York, could very well be forced into a play-in game while the 7th place Tigers rest up for the playoffs. That's the problem.


Point taken, but if NY and TEX do their job and win their games they shouldn't have a problem. If BAL and OAK finish ahead of them, then can you call them the best teams in the AL? Look, I'm not calling it a perfect system and I'm going to be pissed if the Yankees get bumped in a one-game playoff against the A's, but I do think a wild card should be at a disadvantage to the division winners. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Re: 10/2 Cheering/Venting & playoff bound teams

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:14 pm

I really hope the Yankees get bumped out before the playoffs even start, just to see the backlash that will occur. As usual, nothing gets changed until the worst case scenario actually happens.

How awesome would it be if the 94 win Yanks/Orioles are forced into a one game play-in @Baltimore to determine division winner, and then the loser is forced into another one game play-in @Texas the next day against the 93 win Rangers, to see who gets to be in the playoffs the next day to face the 87 win Tigers? The answer is: very awesome.
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