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MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby mweir145 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:34 pm

kab21 wrote:It's not surprising that Mr blue jay is trying to spin this.

If you call "spinning" presenting the facts of this story, then yes, that's exactly what I did. The cultural difference here explains quite a bit about what happened and why many Latin players/coaches/media have come out in defense of Yunel using what's considered a slur in our culture.

this is nothing different than an idiot calling someone a homo, nigga, jew or any of the derogatory slurs. This isn't a translation issue.

It's called a cultural disconnect. Did you read the book link I posted about how Cuban culture is much different than North American culture when it comes to expressing feelings about race, gender, sexuality, and physical appearance? An interesting read to say the least.

It's an immaturity issue and most people grew out of that by age 20 (hopefully) regardless of their language. It really isn't funny.

Except age really has nothing to do with maturity. We'd like to believe it does, but it doesn't. And is it really a huge surprise that a bunch of big kids (or in Omar Vizquel's case, a really old kid) still playing a game for money immaturely joke around like this with regularity?

I apologize for using the idiot slur but he is.

He's an idiot for not being aware of what's considered appropriate in North America, sure. He's been out of Cuba for a while now. But do I believe he had any malicious intent or any ill-will in doing what he did? Not at all. Looked like some clubhouse humor that went wrong and he seemed more ignorant than anything else about it.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby OBPlover » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:55 am

I don't condone what he did but I also feel that this issue has been vastly overhyped. It's not really a big deal. It's just a big deal in this politcially correct society.

I guarantee that at least 80% of the board posters here have at one time made a racist, homophobic or sexist joke, while hanging out with buddies or heard a friend make one and didn't tell him to stop. As for the media, they are also filled with hypocrisy as I am sure many of them have said far far worse behind closed doors.

I live in Toronto so this has been talked about all night long. To give an example of hypocrisy, I was listening to a call in show because the Jays game was postponed. THe radio host,IIRC, said something along the lines of "We should take a page from the old testament, an eye for an eye and come down hard on Escobar, there is no forgiveness". Well, this was a stupid comment on it's own, as Jews could easily get offended. They don't consider their bible called "Torah" to be "the old testament" and for them there is no "new testament" and this can be an insult to Jews. Also it perpetuates the stereotype that Jews are prone to violence.

There is also a double standard here for Escobar and I doubt there would have been as many people calling for his release had he been Encarnacion or Bautsita or a better player. Just look at all the drinking incidents Miguel Cabrera has been involved in. Miguel could have killed somebody and set a terrible example but he was let off the hook. Double standard.

Let it blow over, in a few years nobody will remember or care.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:51 am

If I can be Pedantic (whatever happened to that guy?) for a minute, Cuba is definitely part of North America. Obviously culturally separate from Canada/US though. And still doesn't excuse the idiocy involved in doing this. In most of Canada it's also acceptable to make those remarks amongst friends/teammates, rightly or wrongly, as I'm sure we've all encountered. (The catcher on my team missed a playoff game last Wednesday to go to a Madonna concert with his wife, and you should have heard the verbal lashing he took). But everybody is well aware of the repercussions of doing this on an international stage. It's stupid, and he should be punished. What happened to the guy that wrote "Getz is gay" on the infield last year? I don't remember it being anybody of consequence so nobody probably cared.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:31 am

In Australia Yunel would be an award-winning comedian.

Different cultures, etc.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby Mookie4ever » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:18 am

chargerss24 wrote:The term "Faggot" or "Fag" is a pretty universal language I think.


wat?
Yeah, that's not universal language. That's English.
And he didn't write fag or faggot, he wrote maricon. So unless you grew up in Havana you don't know what that word means to him.
Having heard from people who actually know what they are talking about I am of the opinion that it was not as derogatory as the translation but that it still has homophobic underpinnings. I don't think that plays well at all in a city like Toronto and I think that Yunel has worn out his welcome here.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:56 am

Mookie4ever wrote:
chargerss24 wrote:The term "Faggot" or "Fag" is a pretty universal language I think.


wat?
Yeah, that's not universal language. That's English.
And he didn't write fag or faggot, he wrote maricon. So unless you grew up in Havana you don't know what that word means to him.
Having heard from people who actually know what they are talking about I am of the opinion that it was not as derogatory as the translation but that it still has homophobic underpinnings. I don't think that plays well at all in a city like Toronto and I think that Yunel has worn out his welcome here.
I can't speak for Havana, but my students who have roots and/or have immigrated from Puerto Rico, Colombia, and Honduras all view the term the exact same way we do here in English, with the same exact connotation and usage. I don't think it was used with the homophobic intention, in the same way that my students call each other 'fags' when one doesn't do what the other wants them to do. Still, this is not a translation issue. Every single Latin American hailing person I've asked has said that it means the same thing there that it does here.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby J35J » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:47 am

Has he not been playing baseball in America for some 10 years or so? Whether or not this was a "cultural difference" or not, shouldn't he know by now that this type of thing would blow up...has he not learned this by now? This isn't some 17 year old rookie who just came over from Havana that really doesn't know better...
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby SpecialFNK » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:51 am

I don't want to be offensive using this next word, so don't take it that way. the word "nigger" is known to be a really bad word and something you just don't say, especially to someone black. yet black people themselves use the word on a regular basis, maybe making it sound different like "nigga", but it's still the same thing. I've asked about this elsewhere and was told it's OK for them to use it. but I disagree. if you want the word to go away completely then stop using it all together.
I think I tie that in here because it's the context of how Yunel was using it. in his culture it could be taken differently. even if universally it's known as meaning faggot or gay, it's the type of thing you can say to friends or people you know. if you say to your friend, lol you're a faggot, you're not actually calling your friend GAY in an insulting way.
I'm not trying to make it OK for what Yunel did, I'm just saying I can understand how he meant it now.

for what it's worth, the word fag is also another word for cigarette in some players like Britain.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby Izenhart » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:02 pm

Any conspiracy theorists who think it was done by players who think Yunel is gay. I mean cmon, they guy admitted to having a hairdresser and interior decorator. :-D

Honestly though, I think the media blows stupid things like this out of proportion. I believe it was a harmless stupid thing done by stupid people, not meant to hurt anyone. Stupid being the main topic here.
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Re: MLB investigating Yunel Escobar eye black slur

Postby mweir145 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:19 pm

J35J wrote:Has he not been playing baseball in America for some 10 years or so? Whether or not this was a "cultural difference" or not, shouldn't he know by now that this type of thing would blow up...has he not learned this by now? This isn't some 17 year old rookie who just came over from Havana that really doesn't know better...

Having watched Yunel play and interact with the media for the last few years, it doesn't seem to me like he's integrated himself into this culture at all. He doesn't even attempt to speak English (or so it seems). Playing in a city like Toronto, with such a large Cuban population, also lets him stay in that bubble. I wouldn't think it about a lot of players, but I believe he really is that ignorant about what happened here.
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