MashinSpuds wrote:Ellsbury likely gone (that's what I think ... why send off big contracts only to sign a new one with an annually banged up guy whose agent is Boras?), the team will look interesting next year. I look forward to it. Even if Papi is let go and Lackey is given a chance to do SP3/4 work, it'll be a great challenge to watch.
Just can't see this coming to fruition. Boston and their fans expect a winner (at least a legitimate competitor), not a 3 year rebuilding plan. They won't let Ellsbury walk.
And yet, they just sent away one of their best hitters, a veteran arm, and a pop/speed combo that might actually do something next year. A winner is not happening next year or the year after that, so Sox fans need to swallow that pill. If the ownership is going to make Sox fans believe they're 'turning over a new leaf', then spending max dollars for 5-6 years on Ellsbury would be hypocritical. Boras doesn't give discounts and Ellsbury probably doesn't have much love for the place, so I think it's more likely he is gone. I worry about who the lead off hitter will be, though it could be a rotation to see who sticks.
MashinSpuds wrote:Ellsbury likely gone (that's what I think ... why send off big contracts only to sign a new one with an annually banged up guy whose agent is Boras?), the team will look interesting next year. I look forward to it. Even if Papi is let go and Lackey is given a chance to do SP3/4 work, it'll be a great challenge to watch.
Just can't see this coming to fruition. Boston and their fans expect a winner (at least a legitimate competitor), not a 3 year rebuilding plan. They won't let Ellsbury walk.
And yet, they just sent away one of their best hitters, a veteran arm, and a pop/speed combo that might actually do something next year. A winner is not happening next year or the year after that, so Sox fans need to swallow that pill. If the ownership is going to make Sox fans believe they're 'turning over a new leaf', then spending max dollars for 5-6 years on Ellsbury would be hypocritical. Boras doesn't give discounts and Ellsbury probably doesn't have much love for the place, so I think it's more likely he is gone. I worry about who the lead off hitter will be, though it could be a rotation to see who sticks.
Of course! Didn't you notice how little THAT $260 mil produced? Sure they would have preferred to keep AGon but if it meant wiping that much salary off the books, they couldn't refuse. Also, how about all that bad press plus too many leftovers from the old regime - perfect time to reset. Don't know why you think this means that suddenly a big market team is going to attempt to win like a small market team through their farm system. NOT keeping Ellsbury would be highly unusual as I don't buy at all he needs to go for this team to turn over any leaves in the eyes of fans.
I understand the Reset completely and have no illusions as to why the Sox did it, but I would be very surprised if Sox management spent big money on Gonzalez, then sent him away, only to *then* spend big money on a Crawford upgrade that has his own injury history. Of course the Sox aren't turning into the A's, but I believe (at least it would make sense) that they spread the money around on multiple, functional players instead of just one. Like I said, it would be very hypocritical for them to pay big money/multiple years to Ellsbury just so that they could possibly find themselves in the same 'bogged down by big contracts' situation in a year or two.
MashinSpuds wrote: they could possibly find themselves in the same 'bogged down by big contracts' situation in a year or two.
but nobody really thinks they were actually "bogged down" by any of those contracts, at least not yet. they were just completely under performing as a team
MashinSpuds wrote:I understand the Reset completely and have no illusions as to why the Sox did it, but I would be very surprised if Sox management spent big money on Gonzalez, then sent him away, only to *then* spend big money on a Crawford upgrade that has his own injury history. Of course the Sox aren't turning into the A's, but I believe (at least it would make sense) that they spread the money around on multiple, functional players instead of just one. Like I said, it would be very hypocritical for them to pay big money/multiple years to Ellsbury just so that they could possibly find themselves in the same 'bogged down by big contracts' situation in a year or two.
The problem was not having two $100 million players on the roster or a $16 a year pitcher on the roster. The problem the Red Sox had was that the $100 million players they had were not preforming up to expectations (Gonzalez was preforming very well, but less well than was expected when he signed). This trade allows the Red Sox to get the right players if the opportunity presents itself.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude wrote:This trade allows the Red Sox to get the right players if the opportunity presents itself.
Yes, though what constitutes as a 'right player' to pay for a big contract for is up for debate. At the time Gonzalez looked like a 'right player' when he was signed. Crawford, probably not so much, but he looked good in a Ellsbury/Crawford/Pedroia/Youk/Papi lineup at the time. Is Ellsbury the 'right player' given his history? It's not Greinke, nor is it probably Hamilton either. I still think they go smaller with Cody Ross-like players instead of guys like Ellsbury, at least for the time being. Well, I guess the offseason will be interesting to see which direction they choose.
thedude wrote:This trade allows the Red Sox to get the right players if the opportunity presents itself.
Yes, though what constitutes as a 'right player' to pay for a big contract for is up for debate. At the time Gonzalez looked like a 'right player' when he was signed. Crawford, probably not so much, but he looked good in a Ellsbury/Crawford/Pedroia/Youk/Papi lineup at the time. Is Ellsbury the 'right player' given his history? It's not Greinke, nor is it probably Hamilton either. I still think they go smaller with Cody Ross-like players instead of guys like Ellsbury, at least for the time being. Well, I guess the offseason will be interesting to see which direction they choose.
I think they are going to be focusing on young pitchers efficient in pitches per out, trading for prospects and essentially going into a 2-3 year hole, at which time they will spend on free agents once the young talent comes up. If they dive into the FA pool this offseason and go on a spree, I see them placing themselves in the exact situation they have been in for the past 3 seasons, which wouldn't make sense. Do the Sox fans want an expensive team of mediocre players, or do they want a team that will compete year in and out without causing the price of a pair of tickets to cost more than a month's worth of groceries?
Last edited by Izenhart on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Team Izzy C Mauer 1 E5 2 Cano 3 ARam S Rollins CI LaRoche MI Altuve O Melky, Pagan, Morse, Hunter, Ruggiano SP Lee, Fister, Estrada, McCarthy, Lohse RP Chapman, Jansen, Frieri, Fujikawa Bench 1 Hart S Cabrera O Eaton U Ortiz P Marcum P Miller P Fernandez
Izenhart wrote:I think they are going to be focusing on young pitchers efficient in pitches per out, trading for prospects and essentially going into a 2-3 year hole, at which time they will spend on free agents once the young talent comes up. If they dive into the FA pool this offseason and go on a spree, I see themselves placing them in the exact situation they have been in for the past 3 seasons, which wouldn't make sense. Do the Sox fans want an expensive team of mediocre players, or do they want a team that will compete year in and out without causing the price of a pair of tickets to cost more than a month's worth of groceries?
The Mariners are three games up on the Red Sox and it's September 3rd.
LOL.
Holy ****.
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I was very happy to see the Sox rid themselves of Beckett and Crawford. Carl Crawford was one of my favorite players but pretty soon he will be halfway into a 120 million dollar contract with absolutely no production under his belt. It's ridiculous how little he has done. Injuries are turning into different injuries...set backs after set backs...good luck with him for opening day. He was supposed to be ready for this opening day....he came back at the break. Don't draft that clown next year..
Couple that with Agonz power outage, Lackey and Dice-K, Beckett whining about having 18 days off a year and sucking...Buccholz golfing a day after being scratched...Ellsbury hurt again...Lester getting lit up every outing...Youkilis being run out of town for a guy that would soon be out for the year...Pedroia batting .260 into the break...and it was just way too much...there was a time I wanted everyone on the roster murdered.
I hate this team. It's not that they are losing..I've loved the Pirates for years...the 2012 Red Sox are one of the least likable grouping of human beings ever collected. Good Riddance.
Why don't they just get a house that's already painted?
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by MashinSpuds » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:58 am 
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