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NL MVP.

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Re: NL MVP.

Postby kab21 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:44 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:I learned something today.


You need to use this cream?
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby benb18a » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:36 am

Chances Braun wins the MVP? If the Brewers get a WC spot? Finish above .500?
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Izenhart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:56 am

benb18a wrote:Chances Braun wins the MVP? If the Brewers get a WC spot? Finish above .500?


I was just wondering that. He's making a good case for it. The way the voters think though, with his past steroid fiasco, and the fact many believe he's on them and is just smart enough not to get caught now that he almost was, I think he's going to be shorted votes no matter what he or the Brewers end up doing. It's going to be an interesting vote for sure.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby benb18a » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:40 am

It's extremely interesting, because given most years, he wouldn't have a chance due to several competitors which would give them an excuse. Now this year you've got nobody really in the running. Cutch 22 is destined to be on a losing team, a Silver Slugger at catcher does not an MVP make, and Holliday is putting up MVP numbers from 3 decades ago. It appears that the only thing standing in Braun's way at all is prejudice over the drugs he supposedly took the year before breaking his career high in homers with three weeks to go. Players never testing positive have been punished by the BWA for years based on presumed doping. So I guess there is no scenario which would not surprise large amounts of people. I mean maybe Dickey wins out and his stats keep on impressing, but he's kind of like the Bubba Watson of baseball right now and there are no other dark horse pitchers to fall back on if Braun doesn't play out of his mind and nobody else steps up down the stretch. If current trends aren't completely reversed in the near future, if Braun doesn't win the BWA should be dragged out back.
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
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Peavy Sale, Valverde, Axford, Greinke, Marcum, Estrada, Capuano, Hughes, Haren

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Re: NL MVP.

Postby GiantsFan14 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:46 am

benb18a wrote:a Silver Slugger at catcher does not an MVP make.


what does this even mean? it's not like buster posey is an empty batting average. He's got the 3rd highest OPS in the NL. 3rd highest fWAR*, 3rd highest bWAR* (actually ahead of Braun there), and plays the most physically and mentally demanding position on the field at a very high level. you could make an argument for posey even without the braun steroid controversy.

with the pirates collapse, the mets being out of it, and the braun steroids issue, i think it's definitely posey's to lose. he came back from a devastating injury to carry the giants to the playoffs and the media loves a good storyline.

*WAR for catchers may not be as accurate because catcher defensive metrics are not very good yet. based on the games I've watched I think the metrics likely underrate him as he is an excellent catcher at all facets of the position. pitch selection, framing, blocking balls, and throwing.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Izenhart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Posey would get my vote if I had one and the season ended today. I don't like getting into the argument of how well catchers call a game when talking MVP, because it's not something I can have a legitimate opinion on, but I do agree WAR has less merit for catchers because of the way it not only calculates but also because it weighs defense as half of its score. Offense and defense shouldn't be weighed equally, I think offense is 3x or 4x more important, you create way more runs than you save, no matter how skilled with the glove you are, especially in an era where strikeouts are accounting for a higher % of outs than ever before.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby ayebatter » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:15 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
benb18a wrote:a Silver Slugger at catcher does not an MVP make.


3rd highest fWAR*, 3rd highest bWAR*


Reach ;-)

Not that I can't see a Posey pick, but it would be in reaction to Braun's pre-season troubles. I'll take Braun , who in only 55 more at bats than Posey, is a plus 17 HRs/24 runs/ 11 rbi/ 22 sb/ 12 bb-ibb-hbp/ with a solid .310 ba/.385 obp/.593 slg
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Pogotheostrich » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:13 pm

I can't see Braun getting a sniff at the MVP unless the Brewers make the playoffs.
Right now I'd put Posey in the lead but I could see a couple other players make it interesting with a hot 3 weeks.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby GiantsFan14 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:28 pm

ayebatter wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
benb18a wrote:a Silver Slugger at catcher does not an MVP make.


3rd highest fWAR*, 3rd highest bWAR*


Reach ;-)

Not that I can't see a Posey pick, but it would be in reaction to Braun's pre-season troubles. I'll take Braun , who in only 55 more at bats than Posey, is a plus 17 HRs/24 runs/ 11 rbi/ 22 sb/ 12 bb-ibb-hbp/ with a solid .310 ba/.385 obp/.593 slg


I'm in no way saying Braun hasn't been better than Posey. Just taking into account the fact that he won it last year and then had all the steroid controversy, I very much expect voters will shy away from him this year. Especially if the Brewers don't make the playoffs.

Judging based on how I think voters will vote, I think it's Posey's to lose.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Izenhart » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:31 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
3rd highest fWAR*, 3rd highest bWAR*


Reach ;-)

Not that I can't see a Posey pick, but it would be in reaction to Braun's pre-season troubles. I'll take Braun , who in only 55 more at bats than Posey, is a plus 17 HRs/24 runs/ 11 rbi/ 22 sb/ 12 bb-ibb-hbp/ with a solid .310 ba/.385 obp/.593 slg


I'm in no way saying Braun hasn't been better than Posey. Just taking into account the fact that he won it last year and then had all the steroid controversy, I very much expect voters will shy away from him this year. Especially if the Brewers don't make the playoffs.

Judging based on how I think voters will vote, I think it's Posey's to lose.


Exactly. If they just gave it to the guy with the best stats every year Pujols would have won like 9 MVPs. Dude got hosed so many times.
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