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NL MVP.

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NL MVP.

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:48 pm

I think the counter argument for the team performance argument lies right over in the American league. Trout is the obvious MVP. Trout probably has the best supporting cast. There is a good chance the angles don't make the playoffs.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Havok1517 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:48 pm

kab21 wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:I think Braun may actually pick up additional votes because he was exonerated of his steroid implication and succeeded in the face of skepticism.


He escaped on a technicality and everyone considers him guilty. If anything he loses more votes because of that. If HOF voting is any indication you don't actually have to be found guilty of anything to lose votes.

I think McCutchen will win it unless he goes ice cold for the rest of the season. He's got style and he has the Pirates storyline. Everyone is rooting for an underdog.


Right now, I think its Braun. Fielder leaving only helps his case imo.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby kab21 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:43 pm

Havok1517 wrote:Right now, I think its Braun. Fielder leaving only helps his case imo.


The link to steroids are a much bigger voting factor. Aren't these the same voters that vote for the HOF and they have made it very clear that steroids will affect their vote. This is especially true since some feel like Braun should have been stripped of the MVP last year.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:07 am

not only did Braun fail a test last year for PED, but his appeal was overturned based on a procedure rather than it being proven he didn't test positive. some may feel he still actually did cheat but just got off lucky.
I can't see enough voters voting for Braun based on last year, even if his numbers this year are far and away better. not the year directly after last year. maybe again in the future though.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby Havok1517 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:57 am

SpecialFNK wrote:not only did Braun fail a test last year for PED, but his appeal was overturned based on a procedure rather than it being proven he didn't test positive. some may feel he still actually did cheat but just got off lucky.
I can't see enough voters voting for Braun based on last year, even if his numbers this year are far and away better. not the year directly after last year. maybe again in the future though.


I'm still not convinced that there wasn't already an issue with the test results. The testosterone levels were sooooooo insanely inflated that many outside experts considered the findings, even before the error in processing, impossibly high.

The Daily News
The never-before-seen ratio, according to the source, is one of several “highly unusual circumstances.”

I'm not defending Braun but just stating that there were other fishy circumstances involving the specimen aside from a procedural mishap. If Braun was in fact innocent, and only he knows really, wouldn't it be a shame that he is falsely penalized for what he is doing now?

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Re: NL MVP.

Postby SpecialFNK » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:33 am

I don't think Braun has actually came out and explained why the testosterone level was high. unless I missed it.
if his numbers are still there at the end of the season worth MVP, he should get some people/his people/whoever to send out word that he was innocent last year with findings and an explanation, so that as many voters as possible can believe him and maybe sway votes his way.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:47 am

SpecialFNK wrote:it's unfair to base the vote for either McCutchen or Posey based on how the Pirates or Giants do. the Giants have better players around Posey. it's not fair to punish McCutchen because his teammates are not as good as Posey's teammates.


Nobody said it was fair, it's just how the voters vote.
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NL MVP.

Postby lastingsgriller » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:50 am

SpecialFNK wrote:I don't think Braun has actually came out and explained why the testosterone level was high. unless I missed it.
if his numbers are still there at the end of the season worth MVP, he should get some people/his people/whoever to send out word that he was innocent last year with findings and an explanation, so that as many voters as possible can believe him and maybe sway votes his way.


The Braun camp clearly said at the time that they thought the sample was tampered with or in some way contaminated. He took another test a week later and was completely normal. He went from impossibly high to completely normal in 1 week.

That is more than enough evidence for me, but I like Ryan Braun, so I'm prolly a bit biased.
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Re: NL MVP.

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:06 pm

lastingsgriller wrote:He went from impossibly high to completely normal in 1 week.


According to Victor Conte, apparently that's how the stuff they use works nowadays.

How are players right now circumventing the testing?:

“It’s very, very easy. It’s like taking candy from a baby. They only test the players when they’re at the ballpark. Therefore, after a game, you can apply a testosterone cream or a gel or a patch, and this will peak at about four hours after you take it and be all the way back down to baseline about eight hours after. … This helps with tissue repair and healing and recovery, so they just wait until after the game and apply it … and they get the benefit of having that testosterone circulate and accelerate healing.”


That's 12 hours between taking it and back to baseline. With the way it went down I'd be pretty surprised if Braun hadn't used.
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NL MVP.

Postby lastingsgriller » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:29 pm

I learned something today.
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