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AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:35 pm

I know Cabrera is going to win it and I think people here are undervaluing:
RBI's as being completely team dependent
Of course they aren't completely team dependent. however, i do think that really including them in any argument is just doubling up on offensive numbers. with good offensive numbers and a team that gets on base in front of you come RBIs. the RBIs are really already accounted for when you list your OPS/HR numbers

The value of offense compared to defense
if anything defense is undervalued because there really haven't been stats in the past to compare defensive value to offensive value. the defense that miguel cabrera plays compared to the defense mike trout plays is an absolutely HUGE value swing.

The importance of Cabrera performance in September
This has been brought up a lot, and it turns out that Trout was actually better in September. plus, what makes a game in september any more important than a game in april? they're both worth 1 win no matter when they come.

Games played
Definitely something to consider, but the fact that Trout's per game value was so much higher than mcabs outweighs this imo. saying that mcab put up similar or worse value over more games is not a plus imo.
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:13 am

jorgesca wrote:I'm happy Cabrera is going to win it, just would like to have an argument to defend it.

This pretty much sums up the entire thread...
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby Izenhart » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:36 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
jorgesca wrote:I'm happy Cabrera is going to win it, just would like to have an argument to defend it.

This pretty much sums up the entire thread...


+1

Nothing more to add - all angles point to Trout, yet Cabrera is going to win. I'm with h0rt in saying I just don't care anymore.
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby benb18a » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:02 am

Izenhart wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:
jorgesca wrote:I'm happy Cabrera is going to win it, just would like to have an argument to defend it.

This pretty much sums up the entire thread...


+1

Nothing more to add - all angles point to Trout, yet Cabrera is going to win. I'm with h0rt in saying I just don't care anymore.


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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby Izenhart » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:31 pm

benb18a wrote:
Izenhart wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:This pretty much sums up the entire thread...


+1

Nothing more to add - all angles point to Trout, yet Cabrera is going to win. I'm with h0rt in saying I just don't care anymore.


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I laughed harder than I should have at that :-D ;-D
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby mweir145 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
RyeWhiskey wrote:
My main argument is that Trout's amazing season did not lead his team to the playoffs and getting to the playoffs is the goal of the regular season. Hence, in real baseball terms, his season was not as valuable as someone who's team did make the playoffs.

I'm sorry but it's true. Not everything comes down to stats.


This can't be a real argument, can it?
Just for giggles, by this logic, Mike Trout's season was less valuable than Coco Crisp's, as his efforts led the A's to the playoffs, in the same division even. This would be correct, yes? It would be less valuable than every single member of the A's, in fact. Correct?


You gave at least some weight to this argument about the importance of the postseason as it pertains to the MVP last year. What's changed? You know, other than Bautista not being a part of the conversation and me not being heaviy involved? :-D

BTW, it's interesting to note that the traditionalist candidate last year (Granderson) was winning the poll in that thread. Some just can't move past those old hallmarks when discussing value (as we will see again when Cabrera wins out over the superior Trout).

viewtopic.php?t=434752&hilit=bigh0rt&start=740#p3446185

bigh0rt wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I don't see any thing about the postseason on the criteria. What a surprise. ;-)

That's where the 'actual value of a player to his team' component becomes largely debated, but you already know this. You just disagree with it, so choose to pretend it doesn't exist. ;-)
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby Urban Cohorts » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:17 am

dannahann wrote:Something else that seems to be getting lost in this thread is just what the voting criteria for MVP are... “The rules of the voting remain the same.. (2) number of games played.. I also find it funny how some state earlier in this thread that playing fewer games favors Trout somehow. Rule (2) is in direct contrast to that premise.


What is funny about Mike Trout posting superior statistics to Miguel Cabrera in a fewer amount of games played? For example, if Player A hits 30 HR in 100 games/350 AB and player B hits 30 HR in 160 games/550 AB, then who is the better power hitter? Obviously Trout and Cabrera have different sets of statistics, but the general consensus seems to be that Trout produced more overall (as evidenced by the number of posts in this thread plus the lack of pro-Cabrera arguments [that don't include triple crown talk]).

And IMO if we are going strictly by the voting criteria, the let us not overlook:

(3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort


If this is the case, then Miguel Cabrera should be eliminated from the discussion before it even starts. Because of the whole belligerence/DUI issue... There really is no excuse as to why a public icon should have done that and behaved that way. If you are making millions of dollars as the star player for a major sports franchise then you should have more common sense than to get behind the wheel under the influence. Not that I'm condoning this behavior for your average Joe. Its just that the stakes are higher on Cabrera's level. And while he may have avoided drinking during Detroit's celebrations this year, I credit that to the hiring of a good PR person.

I know I'll get flamed for these comments, but if you think the number of games should be a significant factor in the MVP then so should Cabrera's poor character. I haven't read anything about Trout having a DUI.
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:21 am

Urban Cohorts wrote:
dannahann wrote:Something else that seems to be getting lost in this thread is just what the voting criteria for MVP are... “The rules of the voting remain the same.. (2) number of games played.. I also find it funny how some state earlier in this thread that playing fewer games favors Trout somehow. Rule (2) is in direct contrast to that premise.


What is funny about Mike Trout posting superior statistics to Miguel Cabrera in a fewer amount of games played? For example, if Player A hits 30 HR in 100 games/350 AB and player B hits 30 HR in 160 games/550 AB, then who is the better power hitter? Obviously Trout and Cabrera have different sets of statistics, but the general consensus seems to be that Trout produced more overall (as evidenced by the number of posts in this thread plus the lack of pro-Cabrera arguments [that don't include triple crown talk]).

And IMO if we are going strictly by the voting criteria, the let us not overlook:

(3) general character, disposition, loyalty and effort


If this is the case, then Miguel Cabrera should be eliminated from the discussion before it even starts. Because of the whole belligerence/DUI issue... There really is no excuse as to why a public icon should have done that and behaved that way. If you are making millions of dollars as the star player for a major sports franchise then you should have more common sense than to get behind the wheel under the influence. Not that I'm condoning this behavior for your average Joe. Its just that the stakes are higher on Cabrera's level. And while he may have avoided drinking during Detroit's celebrations this year, I credit that to the hiring of a good PR person.

I know I'll get flamed for these comments, but if you think the number of games should be a significant factor in the MVP then so should Cabrera's poor character. I haven't read anything about Trout having a DUI.


100% agree.
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Re: AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby mweir145 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:26 am

OK, Trout wins because of the character clause too. All angles.
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AL MVP. Mike Trout show?

Postby lastingsgriller » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:52 pm

Angles and Angels.

Mike Trout wins because Mike Trout.
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