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Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

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Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby Ender » Wed May 08, 2013 9:03 am

bayside wrote:

he is no more of a sell high than any other good pitcher off to a great start, and since he has the stuff and peripherals to back it up more than any of the other "sell highs"... well youd better get a haul for him.

So what is it, really, that you dont like about him?


His inability to throw strikes, bad offenses flail away and get themselves out for him but when he faces a good offense I think he is going to really struggle. He is a good pitcher regardless but the question is, is he a legit ace and my answer is no until I see him play a good offense. I also don't expect the Nats to continue to struggle. Harvey has managed to face teams that were struggling at the time 7 starts in a row. It is just hard for me to judge just how good he is when everything has been so favorable for him so far.
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Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 08, 2013 9:32 am

Change is unhittable.
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Re: Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby garf112 » Wed May 08, 2013 10:32 am

bigh0rt wrote:Best part about this for me is that he went 9 innings, struck out 12... on just 105 pitches. 76 strikes. Looks filthy as ever. Could not be happier to own this guy in my keeper for the next three seasons, or that he is a New York Met.


After everyone was so worried that he threw 120 pitches last time out.

Ender will only be impressed when he faces the Big Red Machine, 1927 Yankees, MLB lowers the mound for his starts, and he throws a complete game shutout in the All-Star game.
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Re: Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby Izenhart » Wed May 08, 2013 10:41 am

The biggest difference I see with Harvey is last year he lived up in the zone more, this year he seems to be down in the zone. During the game last night he was showing the reporter how he holds certain pitches and what he expects from each pitch, so when he needs a groundball he knows what to throw. Smart guy with good stuff, has surely progressed since he came up as a rookie. If he's not an ace who is?
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Re: Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 08, 2013 10:45 am

garf112 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:Best part about this for me is that he went 9 innings, struck out 12... on just 105 pitches. 76 strikes. Looks filthy as ever. Could not be happier to own this guy in my keeper for the next three seasons, or that he is a New York Met.


After everyone was so worried that he threw 120 pitches last time out.

Ender will only be impressed when he faces the Big Red Machine, 1927 Yankees, MLB lowers the mound for his starts, and he throws a complete game shutout in the All-Star game.

I completely understand wanting to see how he fares against a formidable opponent. Not his fault who he's matched up against. He did, however, pitch great against Washington, the heavy NL favorite heading into the season. From a fantasy standpoint, I hope he just keeps facing bum offenses. Fine by me. What I like, though, is not that he's just looking alright or even very good against weaker offenses. He's dominating them like an A+ pitcher should. You can't claim anything otherwise. When he faces a good offense, we'll see what he does, but for now, he isn't just going out and getting outs and moving along, he's dominating and mowing batters down and mixing his pitches incredibly well, and basically doing everything you'd like to see a high end pitcher do. I do think that he would be getting more of the benefit of the doubt if he were a higher rated prospect and had shown this level of dominance throughout his minor league career. I'm all for cautious optimism. I, however, have seen every pitch the kid has thrown in his entire MLB career, and am completely sold. Part of it is certainly Mets' homerism and excitement, but this kid's got the goods. I was surprised by it last season, and even more so early this season, but now I'm starting to believe that he can be a very high level pitcher. He's got the stuff, and the ability to mix them well to keep hitters off balance. He's got one of the best fastballs I've seen all season, and a change up that just makes batters look foolish. Even when he hasn't had his best stuff, he's struck out plenty and still managed to pitch well. We'll see ultimately what transpires, but there's zero chance I'm selling the guy right now unless the haul I get in return is a major reliable stud bat or arm. First few round type player.
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Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby bayside » Wed May 08, 2013 1:34 pm

Ender wrote:
bayside wrote:

he is no more of a sell high than any other good pitcher off to a great start, and since he has the stuff and peripherals to back it up more than any of the other "sell highs"... well youd better get a haul for him.

So what is it, really, that you dont like about him?


His inability to throw strikes, bad offenses flail away and get themselves out for him but when he faces a good offense I think he is going to really struggle. He is a good pitcher regardless but the question is, is he a legit ace and my answer is no until I see him play a good offense. I also don't expect the Nats to continue to struggle. Harvey has managed to face teams that were struggling at the time 7 starts in a row. It is just hard for me to judge just how good he is when everything has been so favorable for him so far.

I already addressed this but you conveniently left that part of the quote out. HE IS RARELY GOING TO FACE GOOD OFFENSES so why do you worry so much about that?

the only legimate concern i could see would be if the Mets say he is on a strict innings limit and will get shut down. so far that hasnt been mentioned at all
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Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby kab21 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:57 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Change is unhittable.
Image


Of course it's unhittable. He threw it to a Marlin. :-D

My concern isn't as much that he has faced struggling offenses but rather what happens when there is a slight flaw in his mechanics. So far he has had his stuff and he is demolishing teams. That won't be true all season. How bad will the blow up be and how long will it last?
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Re: Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby garf112 » Wed May 08, 2013 2:23 pm

kab21 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:Change is unhittable.
Image


Of course it's unhittable. He threw it to a Marlin. :-D

My concern isn't as much that he has faced struggling offenses but rather what happens when there is a slight flaw in his mechanics. So far he has had his stuff and he is demolishing teams. That won't be true all season. How bad will the blow up be and how long will it last?


He hasn't had all of his pitches in every game. Fastball was not great in the three starts before this last one. Only pitch that has been lights out each game has been changeup. People seem to want to find flaws with the guy and right now there aren't many. Like I said earlier in the thread, by the time everyone figures out that he is an ace, he will be in the Hall of Fame. He is real. I encourage you all to try to find a way to watch him pitch. You don't truly understand how good he is until you watch major league hitters (and yes he has faced some of them this year) look absolutely foolish.

The stats speak for themselves. Combine the stats with what you see in real life and everything tells you he is real. Over 100 innings in MLB with an ERA well below three. Workhorse build.
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Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby bigh0rt » Wed May 08, 2013 7:40 pm

These stats don't carry a ton of weight, but still it's fun to note. He’s the 1st pitcher in 100 years to have 125 Ks and less than 25 earned runs over his first 17 starts.
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Re: Re: Matt Harvey: Legit Ace?

Postby garf112 » Wed May 08, 2013 7:48 pm

bigh0rt wrote:These stats don't carry a ton of weight, but still it's fun to note. He’s the 1st pitcher in 100 years to have 125 Ks and less than 25 earned runs over his first 17 starts.


Everybody that has been comparing him to Roger Clemens is wrong. The better comparison would be Old Boss Radbourne.
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