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Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

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Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby CubsFan4Life23 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:33 pm

Who would be better for a 10 team Roto keeper league?

Thanks!
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby CMan0928 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Machado. Not even close I don't think. Sure, Hamilton's speed is a definite factor. But the way I see it Machado is going to either end up at one of two positions, SS or 3B. My guess is 3B. He's still filling out and getting bigger. As time goes on I just get the feeling he's going to be an elite 3B option with plenty of power. I have him in a keeper league and he's only $1 to keep for next season as I picked him up off the waiver wire. I doubt I'll hold onto him as I have my five keepers pretty much locked up. I'm trying to package him up in a deal before the trade deadline. He could be a really nice piece for someone in the near future. I almost don't want to let him go as I see the writing on the wall.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby pungent » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Pretty easy for me, Machado. Billy will only help you with SB's, which he could probably single handily win that category for you, but theirs guys like Gose, Davis, CoCo, etc out there for cheap.

Help - viewtopic.php?t=451961 and viewtopic.php?t=451959
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby Quackman » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:43 pm

pungent wrote:Pretty easy for me, Machado. Billy will only help you with SB's, which he could probably single handily win that category for you, but theirs guys like Gose, Davis, CoCo, etc out there for cheap.

Help - viewtopic.php?t=451961 and viewtopic.php?t=451959



Comparing Hamilton to guys like Davis or Coco is like oh hum. Obv you know very little. Hamilton is on a whole different lvl. I cant think of anyone that could make a bigger top of the lineup impact than Hamilton. Should hit for a decent ave, hits, runs and sb. I mean he has 147sb this year,,,thats sic. Machado has more pop but whoop de doo. I think he is far off before he hits for ave.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby pungent » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:17 am

Quackman wrote:
pungent wrote:Pretty easy for me, Machado. Billy will only help you with SB's, which he could probably single handily win that category for you, but theirs guys like Gose, Davis, CoCo, etc out there for cheap.

Help - viewtopic.php?t=451961 and viewtopic.php?t=451959



Comparing Hamilton to guys like Davis or Coco is like oh hum. Obv you know very little. Hamilton is on a whole different lvl. I cant think of anyone that could make a bigger top of the lineup impact than Hamilton. Should hit for a decent ave, hits, runs and sb. I mean he has 147sb this year,,,thats sic. Machado has more pop but whoop de doo. I think he is far off before he hits for ave.



So now you've resorted to direct puns on my opinions? Obvisously you know a lot more than me so I propose the question if you already know the answer :-? ??

If you actually read my post, you would've noticed I cleary stated Hamilton can single handily WIN you the SB category. And yes I agree he'll steal a heck of a lot more than the guys I mentioned, but history shows Hamilton is not a AVG hitter (RK - .205, RK - .318, LowA - .278, HighA - .323, AA - .267). The .318 Rookie level doesn't say much other than he can hit a fastball, AVG dropped in LowA as pitchers are slightly better (not much), HighA had a "career" year, and now has cooledoff/regressed since being promoted. I'm just going on a wild guess here, but I'm pretty sure most hitters numbers regress once they hit the bigs, unless of coarse you're Mike Trout, which he clearly is not!

I would take a guy with the higher ceiling, more power, and better contact hitter any day over a guy that can "fly". A guy that hit HR's will contribute to 5 categories (HR, R, RBI, AVG, OPS), compared to the 3 categories you listed. If you need those 3 more than take Hamilton, but that wasn't the question you proposed. Manchado is a stud and he's already demonstrating this at such a young age in the bigs.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby kaiser » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:15 am

Hamilton has to get called up to the major leagues before he can start helping anyone's team. Then he has to start playing regularly. So until all of that happens, unless you are speculating for next season or beyond, you go with Machado.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby CMan0928 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:40 am

kaiser wrote:Hamilton has to get called up to the major leagues before he can start helping anyone's team. Then he has to start playing regularly. So until all of that happens, unless you are speculating for next season or beyond, you go with Machado.


Agreed. Big League pitching is quite different than Minor League pitching. Just ask a guy like Matt LaPorta. Hamilton's speed can be a gamechanger, no doubt, but when comparing him to Machado the decision is rather easy for me.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby Quackman » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:25 pm

pungent wrote:
Quackman wrote:
pungent wrote:Pretty easy for me, Machado. Billy will only help you with SB's, which he could probably single handily win that category for you, but theirs guys like Gose, Davis, CoCo, etc out there for cheap.

Help - viewtopic.php?t=451961 and viewtopic.php?t=451959



Comparing Hamilton to guys like Davis or Coco is like oh hum. Obv you know very little. Hamilton is on a whole different lvl. I cant think of anyone that could make a bigger top of the lineup impact than Hamilton. Should hit for a decent ave, hits, runs and sb. I mean he has 147sb this year,,,thats sic. Machado has more pop but whoop de doo. I think he is far off before he hits for ave.



So now you've resorted to direct puns on my opinions? Obvisously you know a lot more than me so I propose the question if you already know the answer :-? ??

If you actually read my post, you would've noticed I cleary stated Hamilton can single handily WIN you the SB category. And yes I agree he'll steal a heck of a lot more than the guys I mentioned, but history shows Hamilton is not a AVG hitter (RK - .205, RK - .318, LowA - .278, HighA - .323, AA - .267). The .318 Rookie level doesn't say much other than he can hit a fastball, AVG dropped in LowA as pitchers are slightly better (not much), HighA had a "career" year, and now has cooledoff/regressed since being promoted. I'm just going on a wild guess here, but I'm pretty sure most hitters numbers regress once they hit the bigs, unless of coarse you're Mike Trout, which he clearly is not!

I would take a guy with the higher ceiling, more power, and better contact hitter any day over a guy that can "fly". A guy that hit HR's will contribute to 5 categories (HR, R, RBI, AVG, OPS), compared to the 3 categories you listed. If you need those 3 more than take Hamilton, but that wasn't the question you proposed. Manchado is a stud and he's already demonstrating this at such a young age in the bigs.


All i hear is yada yada regress,,,bla bla 5 categories. Please. Drafting a balanced team requires top of the lineup speed guys. How is machado a 5 stat guy anyway? Your counting avg and ops? lol. I wouldnt even count him as a 3 stat guy until he has proven it. Im not convinced on machado, he wasnt even hitting for avg when he got called up and that was against minor league pitching. Hes done ok so far in the bigs but a super small sample size so it means nothing. You are on the bandwagon i get it but i wouldnt bet on his success right now,,and id never call him a 5 category guy. Hamilton has hit for better ave than machado in the minors, he will get you more runs and will get you a zillion stolen bases. I think of ben revere but with more speed if thats possible when i think of hamilton.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby pungent » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:56 pm

Quackman wrote:All i hear is yada yada regress,,,bla bla 5 categories. Please. Drafting a balanced team requires top of the lineup speed guys. How is machado a 5 stat guy anyway? Your counting avg and ops? lol. I wouldnt even count him as a 3 stat guy until he has proven it. Im not convinced on machado, he wasnt even hitting for avg when he got called up and that was against minor league pitching. Hes done ok so far in the bigs but a super small sample size so it means nothing. You are on the bandwagon i get it but i wouldnt bet on his success right now,,and id never call him a 5 category guy. Hamilton has hit for better ave than machado in the minors, he will get you more runs and will get you a zillion stolen bases. I think of ben revere but with more speed if thats possible when i think of hamilton.


I agree drafting a balanced team requires top of the lineup speed guys, not to mention heavy hitters, starting pitching, relief pitching and bench that can contribute with AVG when your studs are down in out or have an off day, but last I checked this wasn't about draft strategy so I don't see how that applies. I believe the question is who is a better keeper for a 10 team roto league.

So I guess if building a team, like in RBI baseball Nintendo game, and a whole bunch of fat home run hitters is in his lineup and needs a skinny speedster at the top of the order, then Billy Hamilton is his guy. But if his team has 2 skinny guys 4 fat guys and 2 medium sized guys, well then drafting Machado to fill as a medium guy might make more sense.

With out a doubt, both players come with risk, but it's my opinion (along with every scout out there) Machado brings brings ELITE level talent to the table so I'll take a flier with him b/c he comes with the highest reward. But if you only want SB's then take Hamilton.

Ben Revere, Dee Gordon, Drew Stubbs, BJ Upton, CoCo, Rajai, Gose, all players are easily replacable year in and year out.
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Re: Billy Hamilton or Manny Machado? WHIR

Postby Element » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:16 pm

Agree. While Billy Hamilton is going to be an impact roto player, he is going to be one dimensional. Machado has the ability to be a potential 1st round pick some day. Not to mention that Hamilton could get pushed off of the position. Cozart plays a very good SS & the Reds just re-upped Phillips. It would not surprise me to see Hamilton in CF.
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