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NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:31 am

Giving the CYA to a closer is like giving the gold medal for the 10K to a sprinter because he set the world record in the 100m. Gagne and Eckersley were very impressive but they aren't nearly as valuable as the top starting pitchers.

By the way, the CYA and MVP were the second and third most memorable moments for Eck's 1992 season. Number one:

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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:36 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
ayebatter wrote:
2003 Eric Gagne


Eck in '92


Nope. That'd be even worse than the Gagne pick.

Roger Clemens threw over 160 innings more than eckersley to go along with the best ERA, FIP, and WHIP of any qualified pitcher.


Bingo. IMO a closer would have to be so much more dominant than any starter to deserve it that, while it theoretically could happen, it simply wouldn't. This is a perfect example. Eck was fantastic, but Clemens was still more deserving. Gagne was fantastic in 03, but Prior was still more deserving.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Izenhart » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:34 pm

Another way to look at it is if you are thinking of giving votes to Chapman or Kimbrel, why not Medlen? Arguably just as good if not better (With less K's of course, but why should how pitchers record outs matter) And as a starter he has more impact of the outcome of the games he starts than relievers do in games they finish.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby rjforlife » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:35 am

The Cy Young is given to the most outstanding pitcher in each league. Kimbrel has been outstanding. He has a job to do, and he has done it better than anyone this year. Has he been the most "valuable" pitcher? Maybe not. But to claim he has not been outstanding or incredible at his job this season is ludicrous, and I don't see that the Cy Young is the most valuable pitcher, just the best or most outstanding. Do I think Kimbrel deserves it? Probably not, but you guys are ridiculous in your defense of this like mentioning Kimbrel and his incredible year as such an outrage. So he didn't throw too many innings, big F'n deal, the guy has been absolutely unhittable, and is a big reason the Braves have had success this season. He is a very entertaining pitcher to watch, and his numbers are eye-popping.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:16 pm

Why then, does nobody ever consider giving the CYA to the best middle reliever? Eric O'Flaherty had the best ERA of any pitcher in any role last year. Did you vouch for him to win the CYA? His ERA was less than half of Kimbrel's in the same amount of innings. It was actually lower than Kimbrel's ERA this season, as well. The reason he (and countless others) get no recognition is because they're just middle relievers, and don't have that glorious save total. To me (and countless others) Kimbrel and Chapman are just relief pitchers, and don't have that glorious IP total. Being the most outstanding within an inferior subset of players does not make you the most outstanding of the entire population.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Inukchuk » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:12 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Why then, does nobody ever consider giving the CYA to the best middle reliever?


Because they don't get wins or saves. Duh.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby OBPlover » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:54 am

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
Havok1517 wrote:
Eck in '92


Nope. That'd be even worse than the Gagne pick.

Roger Clemens threw over 160 innings more than eckersley to go along with the best ERA, FIP, and WHIP of any qualified pitcher.


Bingo. IMO a closer would have to be so much more dominant than any starter to deserve it that, while it theoretically could happen, it simply wouldn't. This is a perfect example. Eck was fantastic, but Clemens was still more deserving. Gagne was fantastic in 03, but Prior was still more deserving.


The problem is that starting and closing are two very different jobs. How do you compare going out and throwing as many innings as you can once every 5 days with throwing, possibly, 3 consecutive days, for 1 inning at a time?
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby snash » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:35 pm

A lot of great arguments could be made for Cueto, Gonzo, or even Cain. But given how out-of-no-where and the strong numbers, you have got to think this is the Dickey year. Go Dickey... :-X
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:51 pm

rjforlife wrote:The Cy Young is given to the most outstanding pitcher in each league. Kimbrel has been outstanding. He has a job to do, and he has done it better than anyone this year. Has he been the most "valuable" pitcher? Maybe not. But to claim he has not been outstanding or incredible at his job this season is ludicrous, and I don't see that the Cy Young is the most valuable pitcher, just the best or most outstanding. Do I think Kimbrel deserves it? Probably not, but you guys are ridiculous in your defense of this like mentioning Kimbrel and his incredible year as such an outrage. So he didn't throw too many innings, big F'n deal, the guy has been absolutely unhittable, and is a big reason the Braves have had success this season. He is a very entertaining pitcher to watch, and his numbers are eye-popping.


Most outstanding doesn't mean most outstanding at their specific job. Kimbrel is just as outstanding at a significantly easier job than Dickey and Gio are at the most difficult job a pitcher has. It's way harder to throw 8 good innings than 1.
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Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby rjforlife » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:25 am

Say you work in an office and your boss gives you a project to do. It's not easy, but not the toughest. You complete the project in record time and it's nearly flawless. You turn it in, what does your boss say?

1. Outstanding job, you did everything we asked of you and I'm going to recommend you for employee of the month.

2. Outstanding job, but Bob could have done this blindfolded with a broken arm. I don't respect you, so why don't you just piss off.

3. Who the hell are you? Get out of my office!



I'd like to think that number one would be most common. It's clearly not a perfect analogy and meant to give a chuckle, but #2 really sounds like what you guys are saying about Kimbrel. I may in the minority and be wrong, but I just think he deserves SOME credit for this incredible season.
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