NL Cy Young - Who will it be? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby J35J » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:40 pm

Wins are team dependent as are being a playoff team is team dependent...not sure why either would be taken into account when trying to decide who wins an individual player award.
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Element » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:42 pm

J35J wrote:Wins are team dependent as are being a playoff team is team dependent...not sure why either would be taken into account when trying to decide who wins an individual player award.


Agreed. The title of the thread says 'Who will it be'. Not 'Who do you think it should be'. History tells us that team dependent stats, for whatever reason, matter to the writers that vote on these awards. I don't like it or agree with it, but it's the way that it is ... at least for now.
Image
Element
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 4909
(Past Year: 719)
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby J35J » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:31 am

Yeah, I think some are trying to guess who it will be while others are suggesting who it should be. I think in these types of threads you should put that disclaimer at the top of your post...who you think should win or who you think will win...there is decent size difference between the two a lot of the times. I generally care, or more like to read, more about who people think should win more than I care who the idiot writers are going to choose.
J35J
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 10467
(Past Year: 369)
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Izenhart » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:29 am

J35J wrote:Yeah, I think some are trying to guess who it will be while others are suggesting who it should be. I think in these types of threads you should put that disclaimer at the top of your post...who you think should win or who you think will win...there is decent size difference between the two a lot of the times. I generally care, or more like to read, more about who people think should win more than I care who the idiot writers are going to choose.


I've been stating how I think the votes will fall in reality. I agree with whoever said relievers should never get votes. CY to me is for starting pitchers, MVP is for hitters.

Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.

So ya, that's how I feel, but it's not a subject I enjoy to argue for or against. Mainly because it's all subjective and it's just my opinion against yours. It's almost the same is "Who is next years #1 pick" Where you have two sides arguing who it will be against who they think it should be. I'd rather just argue who's going to win, and where you think the votes will fall.
Izenhart
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1611
(Past Year: 294)
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Big Papiville

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:54 am

Izenhart wrote:Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.
They do. It's called the Rolaids Relief Man Award.
Image
bigh0rt
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterGraphics ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerWeb SupporterPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 24818
(Past Year: 348)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Crowding The Plate

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Izenhart » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:48 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Izenhart wrote:Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.
They do. It's called the Rolaids Relief Man Award.


My point exactly. No one ever talks about it because no one really cares, because relievers don't matter that much compared to the rest of their team.

I read an article years ago that I feel like digging up, that talked about how valuable a players is to a team, and it involves "how many times you are a variable factor in a play" was involved where they had an impact on the natural outcome. An easy ground ball to second base means less for the second baseman than it does to the hitter or pitcher. Starting pitchers naturally will always be more valuable than relievers using this method, no matter how well the reliever has performed, there has always been a starting pitcher who made a much more positive overall impact over the course of the season.

Because I buy into this I think they should just stick to their Rolaids award and be ignored in the CY and MVP races. But Kimbrel and Chapman will still get votes.
Izenhart
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1611
(Past Year: 294)
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Big Papiville

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Skin Blues » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:13 pm

Looking at win probability added, Chapman is actually 5th in the NL amongst pitchers (Leverage neutralized win probability added). So he has certainly played a huge part in the Reds' success. Kimbrel is 11th and Brad Ziegler (!!!) is 14th. That's not predictive at all (meaning there is a lot of luck not accounted for) but relievers can indeed have a big impact.
Skin Blues
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3081
(Past Year: 113)
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby disgruntledjetsfan » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:11 pm

If Gio Gonzalez tears up the Brewers at home on Saturday, I think he jumps to the top of this race w/ his 20th win. Like it or not, 20 Ws is a big deal for the voters, he's on the best team in the NL, has a sub 3 era, and a ton of Ks.


ETA: That said, I think it SHOULD be Dickey.
Image
disgruntledjetsfan
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Mock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 521
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Home Cafe: Football

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:07 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Looking at win probability added, Chapman is actually 5th in the NL amongst pitchers (Leverage neutralized win probability added). So he has certainly played a huge part in the Reds' success. Kimbrel is 11th and Brad Ziegler (!!!) is 14th. That's not predictive at all (meaning there is a lot of luck not accounted for) but relievers can indeed have a big impact.


Impact? Sure. Cy Young? No. Chapman has been really really dominant this year, yet he's still only 5th. I can't see any situation in which a reliever could possibly be 1st if Chapman this year is still only 5th. It's not that he's not really valuable, it's just that he certainly isn't the Cy Young.
Image

2011 Live Free or DyNasty Champ
A Fleshner Fantasy
Wicked Wikitect
Wicked Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3542
(Past Year: 32)
Joined: 11 May 2006
Home Cafe: Football

Re: NL Cy Young - Who will it be?

Postby Nerfherders » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:39 pm

RA Dickey is my choice. A journeyman knuckleballer - gotta love that.
Nerfherders
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
Cafe Writer
Posts: 669
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Sunday, Oct. 26
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact