Wins are team dependent as are being a playoff team is team dependent...not sure why either would be taken into account when trying to decide who wins an individual player award.
J35J wrote:Wins are team dependent as are being a playoff team is team dependent...not sure why either would be taken into account when trying to decide who wins an individual player award.
Agreed. The title of the thread says 'Who will it be'. Not 'Who do you think it should be'. History tells us that team dependent stats, for whatever reason, matter to the writers that vote on these awards. I don't like it or agree with it, but it's the way that it is ... at least for now.
Yeah, I think some are trying to guess who it will be while others are suggesting who it should be. I think in these types of threads you should put that disclaimer at the top of your post...who you think should win or who you think will win...there is decent size difference between the two a lot of the times. I generally care, or more like to read, more about who people think should win more than I care who the idiot writers are going to choose.
J35J wrote:Yeah, I think some are trying to guess who it will be while others are suggesting who it should be. I think in these types of threads you should put that disclaimer at the top of your post...who you think should win or who you think will win...there is decent size difference between the two a lot of the times. I generally care, or more like to read, more about who people think should win more than I care who the idiot writers are going to choose.
I've been stating how I think the votes will fall in reality. I agree with whoever said relievers should never get votes. CY to me is for starting pitchers, MVP is for hitters.
Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.
So ya, that's how I feel, but it's not a subject I enjoy to argue for or against. Mainly because it's all subjective and it's just my opinion against yours. It's almost the same is "Who is next years #1 pick" Where you have two sides arguing who it will be against who they think it should be. I'd rather just argue who's going to win, and where you think the votes will fall.
Team Izzy C Mauer 1 E5 2 Altuve 3 ARam S Cabrera CI LaRoche MI Drew O Melky, Cuddyer, Morse, Hunter, McClouth U Ortiz SP Lee, Fister, Miller, Fernandez, Lackey, RP Chapman Frieri Grilli Gregrsn Bnch 1 Hart 3 Mdlbrk 3 Rendon O Eaton P Lohse Nolasco Santana
Izenhart wrote:Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.
Izenhart wrote:Do you know why relievers don't have an award? It's because they don't matter enough to deserve one, and they should never get votes for anything.
My point exactly. No one ever talks about it because no one really cares, because relievers don't matter that much compared to the rest of their team.
I read an article years ago that I feel like digging up, that talked about how valuable a players is to a team, and it involves "how many times you are a variable factor in a play" was involved where they had an impact on the natural outcome. An easy ground ball to second base means less for the second baseman than it does to the hitter or pitcher. Starting pitchers naturally will always be more valuable than relievers using this method, no matter how well the reliever has performed, there has always been a starting pitcher who made a much more positive overall impact over the course of the season.
Because I buy into this I think they should just stick to their Rolaids award and be ignored in the CY and MVP races. But Kimbrel and Chapman will still get votes.
Team Izzy C Mauer 1 E5 2 Altuve 3 ARam S Cabrera CI LaRoche MI Drew O Melky, Cuddyer, Morse, Hunter, McClouth U Ortiz SP Lee, Fister, Miller, Fernandez, Lackey, RP Chapman Frieri Grilli Gregrsn Bnch 1 Hart 3 Mdlbrk 3 Rendon O Eaton P Lohse Nolasco Santana
Looking at win probability added, Chapman is actually 5th in the NL amongst pitchers (Leverage neutralized win probability added). So he has certainly played a huge part in the Reds' success. Kimbrel is 11th and Brad Ziegler (!!!) is 14th. That's not predictive at all (meaning there is a lot of luck not accounted for) but relievers can indeed have a big impact.
If Gio Gonzalez tears up the Brewers at home on Saturday, I think he jumps to the top of this race w/ his 20th win. Like it or not, 20 Ws is a big deal for the voters, he's on the best team in the NL, has a sub 3 era, and a ton of Ks.
Skin Blues wrote:Looking at win probability added, Chapman is actually 5th in the NL amongst pitchers (Leverage neutralized win probability added). So he has certainly played a huge part in the Reds' success. Kimbrel is 11th and Brad Ziegler (!!!) is 14th. That's not predictive at all (meaning there is a lot of luck not accounted for) but relievers can indeed have a big impact.
Impact? Sure. Cy Young? No. Chapman has been really really dominant this year, yet he's still only 5th. I can't see any situation in which a reliever could possibly be 1st if Chapman this year is still only 5th. It's not that he's not really valuable, it's just that he certainly isn't the Cy Young.
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by J35J » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:40 pm 
