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Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:57 am

Only 84 pages to go...

Here's a few things that my savior, Jonah Keri, had to say on the matter. Excerpts from his Grandland Article on Melky...

The notion that Cabrera could have a major impact on a pennant race would have seemed ludicrous as recently as two years ago. At that point in his career, Cabrera had reached double-digit home runs in a season just once. Hell, he'd slugged .400 or better just once. He was a popgun hitter who provided moderate value when his bloops and grounders would find holes, next to zero value when they didn't.

Then he went nuts. After signing with the Royals in December 2010, Cabrera enjoyed the best season of his career, hitting .305/.339/.470. He set career highs in batting average, slugging average, hits (201), doubles (44), and homers (18), as well as runs scored, runs batted in, stolen bases, and virtually any advanced stat you can imagine. Traded to the Giants last offseason for Jonathan Sanchez, Cabrera was a hit machine from day one, racking up 12 of 'em in his first seven games. In 113 games this season, he hit .346/.390/.516. He ranks second in the National League in batting average, first in hits (159), first in runs scored (84), and 11th in Wins Above Replacement (4.5)...

You'd expect a player that young (who's not Mike Trout) to struggle with such early major league exposure. You might also expect a performance spike when a player hits his mid-to-late 20s, like the one Cabrera had. The performance jump of the past two years might seem big, even accounting for typical aging curves. But it's also a bit of a leap to attribute all of his newfound success to PED use. Cabrera did hit for more pop in the past two seasons, but not in an extreme Brady Anderson way (.164 and .170 Isolated Power in 2011 and 2012, compared to .130 for his career). He did hit a few more line drives, but the uptick was fairly small (20.3 percent and 21.8 percent line-drive rates in 2011 and 2012, vs. 19.7 for his career)...

Cabrera owed a huge chunk of his newfound success to massive jumps in his batting average on balls in play: .288 in 2009 and 2010, then .332 in 2011, and a sky-high .379 in 2012 (fifth-highest in the majors). It's possible that Cabrera leveraged newfound bat speed into harder-hit balls and thus more hits, in a way that eyeballing line-drive rate wouldn't fully convey. But it's also possible that Cabrera's big breakout has more to do with organic improvement as a hitter and random variance on balls in play than any nefarious PED-generated benefits... there's evidence to suggest that certain substances can enhance physical traits, which might figure to improve athletic performance...

All of which is to say, if a player violates the rules of baseball the way Cabrera did, he's due for a suspension. But stating with authority that player X improved Y percent because he took substance Z is just spending too long on the Jump to Conclusions mat... The rest can be debated by the legions of MDs with intimate knowledge of Melky Cabrera's anatomy who've magically sprung up overnight.
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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:13 am

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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby Maris09 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:20 am

rjforlife wrote:I think Maris just keeps the argument going so he can get into the top 20 for bases this season. Take away all bases for this thread!!!

It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.
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Re: Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby wrveres » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:51 am

Maris09 wrote:
rjforlife wrote:I think Maris just keeps the argument going so he can get into the top 20 for bases this season. Take away all bases for this thread!!!

It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.

You said back on page two or three that you read that steroids improve your vision. I think we are all still waiting for the link.
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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby rjforlife » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Maris09 wrote:
rjforlife wrote:I think Maris just keeps the argument going so he can get into the top 20 for bases this season. Take away all bases for this thread!!!

It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.


I singled you out because Giants is way ahead and clearly doesn't need bases and WR only has 37 so he clearly won't make the list. It was just a joke that only made sense if applied to you, nothing personal about this argument.
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Re: Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby Maris09 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:25 pm

wrveres wrote:
Maris09 wrote:
rjforlife wrote:I think Maris just keeps the argument going so he can get into the top 20 for bases this season. Take away all bases for this thread!!!

It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.

You said back on page two or three that you read that steroids improve your vision. I think we are all still waiting for the link.

I said I've heard/read that they improve your vision. Buff up on that reading comprehension. It's on pg 3.
I'm waiting on your proof that says it doesn't. Spoiler alert.....it isn't coming from either of us.
The bottom line is, which has been over and over, is that none of us know for sure.
Now Dr. Wrvwrwvrwrveres, I know you "think you know," but you've provided nothing but your opinion, and an article that only said some researchers believe it improves hand-eye coordination. So since none of us are doctors, and since none of us have proof either way, I'm going to stick with my opinion, and you're going to stick with yours......probably for the next 84 pages. We're comin Big0rt!
Last edited by Maris09 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby Maris09 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:26 pm

rjforlife wrote:
Maris09 wrote:
rjforlife wrote:I think Maris just keeps the argument going so he can get into the top 20 for bases this season. Take away all bases for this thread!!!

It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.


I singled you out because Giants is way ahead and clearly doesn't need bases and WR only has 37 so he clearly won't make the list. It was just a joke that only made sense if applied to you, nothing personal about this argument.

No worries. I haven't even looked in to what that bases thing is all about. :-D
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Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby wrveres » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:34 pm

So you are of the opinion that steroids help your vision, and you have nothing, nada, to back it up. You just pulled it out of thin air, and your sticking to it. Brilliant!
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Re: Re: Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby wrveres » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:37 pm

Maris09 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Maris09 wrote:It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.

You said back on page two or three that you read that steroids improve your vision. I think we are all still waiting for the link.

I said I've heard/read that they improve your vision. Buff up on that reading comprehension. It's on pg 3.

how is that different than what I said?
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Re: Re: Melky Cabrera. 50 game ban for Testosterone

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:49 pm

Maris09 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Maris09 wrote:It's odd that you would single me out as one that keeps it going rather than a 3 person thing, especially considering I'm the one who's said let's just agree to disagree and end this like 6 times. But ok.

You said back on page two or three that you read that steroids improve your vision. I think we are all still waiting for the link.

I said I've heard/read that they improve your vision. Buff up on that reading comprehension. It's on pg 3.
I'm waiting on your proof that says it doesn't. Spoiler alert.....it isn't coming from either of us.
The bottom line is, which has been over and over, is that none of us know for sure.
Now Dr. Wrvwrwvrwrveres, I know you "think you know," but you've provided nothing but your opinion, and an article that only said some researchers believe it improves hand-eye coordination. So since none of us are doctors, and since none of us have proof either way, I'm going to stick with my opinion, and you're going to stick with yours......probably for the next 84 pages. We're comin Big0rt!
I think you guys should spend a few pages discussing what each of you mean by 'vision', because just about every player in the league has 20/20 eyesight either naturally, with corrective lenses, or Lasik surgery. So what is 'vision'? :-)
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