bigh0rt wrote:I'm still rooting for this thread to reach 100 pages, though. I'll be happy to pop in and instigate, if necessary. Pro, Anti, doesn't matter. I'll do what is necessary.
Those days are over, I think, but if you want a chance at that, you'll need me.
Yes, you will be a very valuable ally in this process. Shall I start talking about how PEDs have forced Jose Bautista's bones/ligaments/machismo to start deteriorating and are the cause of his current DL stint? Can we somehow discuss how Barry Bonds was unfairly discriminated against because of the color his skin, and not the content of his character (but also kind of the content of his character)? Can we give Mark McGwire a free pass on maybe or maybe not taking PEDs because he's a ginger and has no soul so is incapable of differentiating between right and wrong? Can we postulate that PEDs have caused Sammy Sosa's skin to lighten by no less than four shades? Give me a route, I'll plug it into my GPS, check the flux capacitor, and kick this baby up to 88 mph. 1.21 gigawatts!
Is he even having such a great year? His big jump occurred in 2011 with KC, this year he just increased his BA. Everything else is just ok. The one thing that the roids have done is let him train more and stay on the field.
If Melky was using an increased testosterone to improve his vision, shouldn't the MLB ban contact lenses, Chris Sabo's Horace Grant goggles, and Lasik surgery? At what point do we stop and realize how ridiculous the 'vision' angle is? What are we arguing? That players get better than 20/20? Better than contacts or surgery can make them? I got lost five pages ago. We've still got 90 or so pages to go guys!!
mayor quimby wrote: I don't know why you're focusing on BABIP...Every last one of his stats are overwhelmingly better than they were prior to him using performance enhancing drugs.
When did he start using them?
No one can say with 100% certainty, but:
2010 w/ ATL:
50 Runs, 4 HR, 42 RBI, 7 SB, .255 BA, .354 SLG in 147 GP...note all very similar to stats for his career 162 game average prior to 2011.
2011 w. KC:
102 Runs, 18 HR, 87 RBI, 20 SB, .305 BA, .470 SLG in 155 GP...they were all on track for being even better this year.
Now, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say someone in the Kansas City clubhouse introduced him and he had a bit of a relapse when he moved to Cali. . My guess is that when he was in ATL, he knew that if he didn't make a change in some way, his career was going to be over. I probably would have sauced up if I were him to.
Now lets hear everyone come at my throat for having an opinion . I would like to make it clear that this is what I'm ASSUMING happened. I don't have proof that this is when he started using, but I don't know for sure. But I do have to say that the evidence is substantial enough for this to make sense to most with a functioning brain.
mayor quimby wrote:I don't know why you're focusing on BABIP...Every last one of his stats are overwhelmingly better than they were prior to him using performance enhancing drugs.
When did he start using them?
I think much like most of the other stuff in this thread…..nobody knows for certain.
bigh0rt wrote:Can we give Mark McGwire a free pass on maybe or maybe not taking PEDs because he's a ginger and has no soul so is incapable of differentiating between right and wrong?
Ok that one's a solid as they come
mayor quimby wrote:Now lets hear everyone come at my throat for having an opinion .
RABBLE! RABBLE! RABBLE!
I honestly can’t believe there are so many people backing up Melky’s steroid shortened great season as simply a product of good luck.
mayor quimby wrote: I don't know why you're focusing on BABIP...Every last one of his stats are overwhelmingly better than they were prior to him using performance enhancing drugs.
When did he start using them?
No one can say with 100% certainty, but:
2010 w/ ATL:
50 Runs, 4 HR, 42 RBI, 7 SB, .255 BA, .354 SLG in 147 GP...note all very similar to stats for his career 162 game average prior to 2011.
2011 w. KC:
102 Runs, 18 HR, 87 RBI, 20 SB, .305 BA, .470 SLG in 155 GP...they were all on track for being even better this year.
Now, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say someone in the Kansas City clubhouse introduced him and he had a bit of a relapse when he moved to Cali. . My guess is that when he was in ATL, he knew that if he didn't make a change in some way, his career was going to be over. I probably would have sauced up if I were him to.
Now lets hear everyone come at my throat for having an opinion . I would like to make it clear that this is what I'm ASSUMING happened. I don't have proof that this is when he started using, but I don't know for sure. But I do have to say that the evidence is substantial enough for this to make sense to most with a functioning brain.
Let the craziness begin!
I agree 100% with everything you wrote here.
Team Izzy C Mauer 1 E5 2 Cano 3 ARam S Rollins CI LaRoche MI Altuve O Melky, Pagan, Morse, Hunter, Ruggiano SP Lee, Fister, Estrada, McCarthy, Lohse RP Chapman, Jansen, Frieri, Fujikawa Bench 1 Hart S Cabrera O Eaton U Ortiz P Marcum P Miller P Fernandez
Maris09 wrote:Neither one of us is going to convince the other, probably because there's no real evidence to say one way or another. Move on bro. Go help the Giants find a new LF.
But there is evidence for my side. You just ignore it without any real cause to. If steroids were making such a big difference, there would be some measurable difference in the way he played. He might walk more, he might strike out less, he might hit for more power, he might hit the ball harder. There would be SOMETHING within his skillset that showed an improvement. Just saying that there's no evidence doesn't work because there clearly should be.
Tell me why you think what you do, and there will be some measurable way to look at it.
GiantsFan14 wrote: But there is evidence for my side. You just ignore it without any real cause to. If steroids were making such a big difference, there would be some measurable difference in the way he played. He might walk more, he might strike out less, he might hit for more power, he might hit the ball harder. There would be SOMETHING within his skillset that showed an improvement. Just saying that there's no evidence doesn't work because there clearly should be.
Tell me why you think what you do, and there will be some measurable way to look at it.
GiantsFan14 wrote: But there is evidence for my side. You just ignore it without any real cause to. If steroids were making such a big difference, there would be some measurable difference in the way he played. He might walk more, he might strike out less, he might hit for more power, he might hit the ball harder. There would be SOMETHING within his skillset that showed an improvement. Just saying that there's no evidence doesn't work because there clearly should be.
Tell me why you think what you do, and there will be some measurable way to look at it.
You're really annoying...
And you have a very limited understanding of baseball and statistics in general.
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by bigh0rt » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:03 pm 
. My guess is that when he was in ATL, he knew that if he didn't make a change in some way, his career was going to be over. I probably would have sauced up if I were him to. 
. 
