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Is all fair when trading for keepers?

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Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby footballisbetter.com » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:47 pm

I'm about to give away a TON to get Strasburg for next season at $7. Should I feel guilty towards the rest of the league.

Strasburg's owner has been very stingy with him. This is the offer that I might give up for Strasburg. (none of the other players are keepers, and i am out of it this year)

I give: Quintana, Dempster, Encarnacion, W Chen, Andrus, A Gone, Kinsler, Swisher, Jannsen, Dunn
I get: BJ Upton, D Gordon, H Street, M Morse, Sherzer, S Drew, Sandoval, Strasburg, B Jackson, Fural

Yes, a 20 player deal just to land Strasburg for next season. Since it is an auction league and we have a $300 cap, it's makes trading a little more complicated.

Will other owners hate me? :-D O:-)
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby bigh0rt » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:04 pm

Deals with this many players are almost always annoying and almost always impossible to predict because invariably some of the guys end up getting injured, etc. That said, there's a ton of leeway in keeper leagues with trades like this that doesn't exist in redraft leagues. You have to look at the other keeper potential players in this deal and their contracts... A-Gonz, Kinsler, Andrus, Encarnacion... Morse, Scherzer, Sandoval...

It also depends if trades such as this are commonplace in your league. In my contract keeper, it's pretty normal for things like this (e.g. keepable Trout was traded for un-keepable Pujols and Weaver, keepable Harper was moved for un-keepable Price, etc. this season alone), but if this is rare, your league may react harshly. Honestly, I probably wouldn't blame them. You're handing Strasburg's owner huge upgrades all over the place, and he's giving you back a lot of marginal talent.

Long story short, 20 player deals are just annoying in general. This one's no different.
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby footballisbetter.com » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:13 pm

Here are some other trades for comparison:

Shields, James SP TB - Traded from Steve
Teixeira, Mark 1B NYY - Traded from Steve
Maholm, Paul SP ATL - Traded from Steve
Motte, Jason RP STL - Traded from Steve
Liriano, Francisco SP CHW - Traded from Barner
Cespedes, Yoenis CF OAK - Traded from Barner
Hellickson, Jeremy SP TB - Traded from Barner
Cuddyer, Michael RF COL - Traded from Barner

Jackson, Austin CF DET - Traded from Steve
Moustakas, Mike 3B KC - Traded from Steve
Gordon, Alex LF KC - Traded from Steve
Span, Denard CF MIN - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE!
Brown, Domonic RF PHI - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE!
Kipnis, Jason 2B CLE - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE! 8/13/12 $0.00

Sale, Chris RP CHW - Traded from El Hombre
Cruz, Nelson RF TEX - Traded from El Hombre
Rivera, Mariano RP NYY - Traded from El Hombre
Marte, Starling CF PIT - Traded from El Hombre 7/30/12 $0.00
Cain, Lorenzo CF KC - Traded from Scott
Cabrera, Miguel 1B DET - Traded from Scott
Morrow, Brandon SP TOR - Traded from Scott

Wainwright, Adam SP STL - Traded from El Hombre
Marcum, Shaun SP MIL - Traded from El Hombre
Montero, Miguel C ARI - Traded from El Hombre
Youkilis, Kevin 3B CHW - Traded from El Hombre
Ramirez, Hanley SS LAD - Traded from El Hombre
Stubbs, Drew CF CIN - Traded from El Hombre
7/16/12 3:16 PM ET El Hombre Jeter, Derek SS NYY - Traded from Russo
Sale, Chris RP CHW - Traded from Russo
Pence, Hunter RF SF - Traded from Russo
Rodriguez, Alex 3B NYY - Traded from Russo
Lewis, Colby SP TEX - Traded from Russo
McCann, Brian C ATL - Traded from Russo

Stanton, Giancarlo RF MIA - Traded from Novinger
Lincecum, Tim SP SF - Traded from Novinger
Burton, Jared RP MIN - Traded from Novinger
Davis, Rajai CF TOR - Traded from Novinger
Storen, Drew RP WAS - Traded from Novinger
7/16/12 3:16 PM ET Novinger Gordon, Dee SS LAD - Traded from Russo
Upton, B.J. CF TB - Traded from Russo
Beltran, Carlos CF STL - Traded from Russo
Sabathia, CC SP NYY - Traded from Russo
Valverde, Jose RP DET - Traded from Russo
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby footballisbetter.com » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:49 pm

and, FWIW I'm not really friends with anyone in the league, so if they get pissed over these trades I don't really care.

I just care about winning next year.

This would be my keeper set:
Posey- $1
VMart- $1
Hosmer- $9
Lawrie- $1
D Jennings- $19 for the next 2 seasons (not great but could still work out)
Strasburg- $7
Madbum- $1

This is a league with $300 cap, so this would be a fantastic start.

I guess I just posted this for confirmation that it makes sense.
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby ayebatter » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 am

footballisbetter.com wrote:Here are some other trades for comparison:

Shields, James SP TB - Traded from Steve
Teixeira, Mark 1B NYY - Traded from Steve
Maholm, Paul SP ATL - Traded from Steve
Motte, Jason RP STL - Traded from Steve
Liriano, Francisco SP CHW - Traded from Barner
Cespedes, Yoenis CF OAK - Traded from Barner
Hellickson, Jeremy SP TB - Traded from Barner
Cuddyer, Michael RF COL - Traded from Barner

Jackson, Austin CF DET - Traded from Steve
Moustakas, Mike 3B KC - Traded from Steve
Gordon, Alex LF KC - Traded from Steve
Span, Denard CF MIN - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE!
Brown, Domonic RF PHI - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE!
Kipnis, Jason 2B CLE - Traded from Shoulda Kept CLIFF LEE! 8/13/12 $0.00

Sale, Chris RP CHW - Traded from El Hombre
Cruz, Nelson RF TEX - Traded from El Hombre
Rivera, Mariano RP NYY - Traded from El Hombre
Marte, Starling CF PIT - Traded from El Hombre 7/30/12 $0.00
Cain, Lorenzo CF KC - Traded from Scott
Cabrera, Miguel 1B DET - Traded from Scott
Morrow, Brandon SP TOR - Traded from Scott

Wainwright, Adam SP STL - Traded from El Hombre
Marcum, Shaun SP MIL - Traded from El Hombre
Montero, Miguel C ARI - Traded from El Hombre
Youkilis, Kevin 3B CHW - Traded from El Hombre
Ramirez, Hanley SS LAD - Traded from El Hombre
Stubbs, Drew CF CIN - Traded from El Hombre
7/16/12 3:16 PM ET El Hombre Jeter, Derek SS NYY - Traded from Russo
Sale, Chris RP CHW - Traded from Russo
Pence, Hunter RF SF - Traded from Russo
Rodriguez, Alex 3B NYY - Traded from Russo
Lewis, Colby SP TEX - Traded from Russo
McCann, Brian C ATL - Traded from Russo

Stanton, Giancarlo RF MIA - Traded from Novinger
Lincecum, Tim SP SF - Traded from Novinger
Burton, Jared RP MIN - Traded from Novinger
Davis, Rajai CF TOR - Traded from Novinger
Storen, Drew RP WAS - Traded from Novinger
7/16/12 3:16 PM ET Novinger Gordon, Dee SS LAD - Traded from Russo
Upton, B.J. CF TB - Traded from Russo
Beltran, Carlos CF STL - Traded from Russo
Sabathia, CC SP NYY - Traded from Russo
Valverde, Jose RP DET - Traded from Russo



Trades like these are why I hate keeper leagues. :-°
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby bigken117 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:40 am

it's part of a keeper league's appeal though, setting up for the future. In one league with an 8 player $90 cap, I traded away $25 Tulo, $5 Harvey, $6 Bauer, $5 Rendon for $25 JUpton, $23 Castro, $22 Greinke. The way the salaries are set up, I'd be able to keep only one while the other guy can keep all his new toys.

Trades like that are only annoying to the other teams in contention who didn't make themselves better.
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby mkultra » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:57 pm

I don't understand why you need to trade that many players, even in a salary cap league. Basically, your deal is:

Encarnacion, Andrus, Gonzalez, Kinsler
for
Morse, Scherzer, Sandoval, Strasburg

Beyond that, it's a lot of noise and roster replacements. If no one other than Strasburg is keepable, it really doesn't matter what their salaries are and you don't need to keep lumping in more players to "make it even".
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:33 pm

This is also a H2H league? Imagine a guy getting Encarnacion, Andrus, Gonzalez, Kinsler in return for his Strasburg, who won't even be playing during the H2H finals. Yikes. Kind of ruins the big build up of a championship contending team when somebody can just pull one of these trades and make it all for naught. This is the reason I play neither H2H or keeper leagues. Building for the future is fun, but when it's set up so that bad teams have no incentive to keep their superstars it just ruins things.
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:55 pm

Skin Blues wrote:This is also a H2H league? Imagine a guy getting Encarnacion, Andrus, Gonzalez, Kinsler in return for his Strasburg, who won't even be playing during the H2H finals. Yikes. Kind of ruins the big build up of a championship contending team when somebody can just pull one of these trades and make it all for naught. This is the reason I play neither H2H or keeper leagues. Building for the future is fun, but when it's set up so that bad teams have no incentive to keep their superstars it just ruins things.

Well, I despise H2H on principle as well. But in your example, what about the guy who played against Andrus/Gonzalez/Kinsler/Encarnacion guy in the finals? What did he do a the trade deadline? If he did nothing, then that's why he lost. The clear dynamic in my keeper league is that at some point each team decides if they want to fish or cut bait. And all the teams that plan to fish make a land grab for the expensive quality players. If you want to compete and you don't do that, you probably will lose. But the top few teams have all typically done so, while the teams below them tried to unload unprotectable guys for protectable prospects and such. And if you push all your chips in and you lose... well, that is rough. You have a hard time competing the following year. That's how it goes. And if the Encarnacion/Andrus/etc. etc. deal was unbalanced even within the confines of the league, then *that* is the problem. If the original poster could have gotten Strasburg for less, but chose to just lump in valuable resources, then sure, the league will be unhappy and unbalanced. Ditto if he could have gotten more than Strasburg for that list of players. Bad trades will ruin any league regardless of rules, and that happens when owners don't adequately figure out the market value of what they're trying to trade.
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Re: Is all fair when trading for keepers?

Postby lastingsgriller » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:26 pm

In my league I offered Trouts owner the following:

Choo, Hart, Jennings, Pence, Cespedes, Altuve, CJ Wilson, Cain, Dempster, Fiers

for

Trout and the players he would have dropped.


I'm not going to make the playoffs. (so basically, I offered every single player I wasn't keeping.)

I would not have felt bad for a second. If you have no chance this year, you gotta build for the future.


in the end, the Trout owner took a 9-1 loss which knocked him out of playoff contention.
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