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The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

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The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby bigh0rt » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:18 am

Okay, so given that this movie has been ripe with anticipation for years, I figure it deserves its own thread to see what we loved/hated, etc.

As I said in the Movie thread, it had a very different feel from The Dark Knight. I think a lot of it had to do with the downgrade in villain. For me, Ledger's Joker was just excellent and carried TDK to the level of greatness at which I hold it. That being said, you almost have no choice but to downgrade after that, so it's tough to cast blame. I thought Bane was a good enough villain -- though the story circulated far less around him as a villain as it did around Wayne/Batman finding himself, defeating his demons, etc. etc. So despite the step down from Joker to Bane, the story was centric elsewhere, so I don't think the movie really suffered. I would have preferred to see a Riddler villain who could play more of a cerebral game with Batman similar to the Joker, but that's really just preference. It was cool seeing Batman throw down with Bane a few times, as we've never really seen him hand to hand battle a true villain in the first two movies -- just manhandling nameless thugs. I'm not a comic book reader, but somewhere along the line I had read that Bane broke Batman's back, so that was pretty cool to see too.

The stretch of the movie I felt really stood up to TDK was the climax -- essentially from the part where the police storm Bane's army with Batman through the part where Batman hooks the nuke up to the plane. That 30 or so minute stretch I really loved. I hadn't 'figured out' what was going to happen as Batman was defeating Bane, although I had figured that it was not Bane climbing out of that prison, as the child did not have the protective mask, etc. Some people will call that deus ex machina, but I was really okay with it, and enjoyed it.

I imagine the main criticisms people will have is that the movie 'didn't need' different components. You didn't need Joseph Gordon Levitt, or Anne Hathaway, though I actually enjoyed both of them in the movie. I would have liked Bane to have a bit more of a ceremonious death, I guess you could say.

I'm sure there's a ton more, but I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts on it.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby StlSluggers » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:51 pm

Bane's death scene stuck out to me for a couple reasons. First, it was rather quick. Second, my immediate thought when cat woman reappeared was Han Solo at the end of Episode IV.

I've heard complaints about deus ex machine and this movie, but those seem like petty nitpicking when you figure that the Joker was, by far, the epitome of that concept during the trilogy. Further, I didn't think Bane's group did anything exceptional other than knowing the entire police force would be going down after them. Their crowning achievement was mixing explosives into concrete. After that, everything they used to gain an advantage was brought on by stealing Wayne's weapons and raising an army from freed prisoners. Once the bomb was in place, it made it easy to hold the entire U.S. army at bay, particularly considering that it looked like some of the military were sympathetic. So the "strained believability" argument doesn't really work for me.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:52 pm

Cons:
Seriously the did a blood transfusion with a dead guy and that's how they tricked everyone into thinking the scientist was dead? Seriously?
Bane was hard to understand and had no direction.
It made no sense why that chick wanted to blow up the city.
Cool, Bane can snap a guys neck, we get it. He didn't have near the presence as the Joker (pool stick? pencil? yes plz.). For someone who is "pure evil" he sure didn't give off that vibe and it turns out he's just trying to blow up the city because he loves the chick. Super evil.
Holy crap 99% preachy.
lol at not turning the fusion reactor on because someone somewhere could use it as a bomb, pretty sure that goes for most forms of energy bro.
There was absolutely no structure at parts, the movie just jumped from scene to scene and made no sense in the process.
Look Batman is at home! Now he's standing randomly on a bridge! And now he's finally where he's supposed to be!
Look Batman is in the desert! And now he's back in a locked down Gothem City a scene later despite the fact that he's completely broke!
There was like a hour stretch where he wasn't even involved in the main plot (if you can really call it a plot) and like nothing happened. Like seriously nothing happened. So boring.
He calculates that the bomb will decay in 5 months and sets the timer down to the second? impressive.
We have a nuke about to go off in 2 minutes, let's listen to this chick talk for a bit before she dies, then make out a little and talk about our feelings before we finally do something about it. Brilliant.
At the speed that silly flying tank was doing, there's no way he clears 6 miles in like 1 minute. That bomb would still have flattened the city.
Holy crap it was long.

Pros:
Ann Hathaway is holy crap hot.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby StlSluggers » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:18 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:Cons:
Bane ...had no direction. what? He was League of Shadows. What more direction do you need?
It made no sense why that chick wanted to blow up the city. What? She was League of Shadows. What more reason do you need?
Cool, Bane can snap a guys neck, we get it. He didn't have near the presence as the Joker (pool stick? pencil? yes plz.). Don't care. There was no requirement that the next bad guy be better than the Joker. For someone who is "pure evil" he sure didn't give off that vibe and it turns out he's just trying to blow up the city because he loves the chick. Super evil. what? He was League of Shadows. What more do you need?

You may have some legitimate complaints, but I also wonder if you even watched half of the movie.

Want a legitimate complaint about Bane? Where did he get his super strength from? The mask only kept him from excruciating pain, as they explained it.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby StlSluggers » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:22 pm

Holy crap 99% preachy.

As for this, I didn't get a chance to write it earlier. Typing from a phone is sooo slooow.

IMO, Nolan's only weak point through the entire trilogy is that he leaned very heavily on the socio-political topic de jour to anchor his movie.
There's a recession on? Make the first movie about a depression in Gotham.
People are upset about Guantanomo, the Patriot Act, and George W? Add in a heavy-handed discussion about spying on civilians.
Occupy Wall Street? Build a movie around rich people getting their comeuppance in a proletariat revolution.

But I also know that most Hollywood movies incorporate this stuff to some extent, so it's kinda hard to blame him specifically for something many other do as well.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:28 pm

StlSluggers wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:Cons:
Bane ...had no direction. what? He was League of Shadows. What more direction do you need?
It made no sense why that chick wanted to blow up the city. What? She was League of Shadows. What more reason do you need?
Cool, Bane can snap a guys neck, we get it. He didn't have near the presence as the Joker (pool stick? pencil? yes plz.). Don't care. There was no requirement that the next bad guy be better than the Joker. For someone who is "pure evil" he sure didn't give off that vibe and it turns out he's just trying to blow up the city because he loves the chick. Super evil. what? He was League of Shadows. What more do you need?

You may have some legitimate complaints, but I also wonder if you even watched half of the movie.

Want a legitimate complaint about Bane? Where did he get his super strength from? The mask only kept him from excruciating pain, as they explained it.


"league of shadows" is not a get out of jail free card for motivation. it makes sense in the first movie because gotham is all corrupt and they want to purge the city because they don't think it can be saved. now her sole motivation is to carry on her dad's legacy? she even talks about how she's all pissed off at her dad, and then batman kills him so now all the sudden she's gotta go blow up gotham? and why do they have to blow themselves up? is that some requirement of the league of shadows?

and the fact that they have to spent 4 minutes at the end of the movie letting her explain her "motivation" is just silly. if you have to take that time to explain it at the end, then you probably didn't do a good job during the first 2.5 hours where we're sitting there with no clue why bane was doing what he was doing.

and i never said bane had to be better than joker (that'd be pretty impossible), I was merely pointing out the fact that joker conveys the fact that he's a psychopath through his actions while bane just randomly snaps someone's neck every once in awhile. it's boring and in no way do you get the feeling that this guy is "pure evil"
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby StlSluggers » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:23 pm

I think LoS makes perfect sense, explains it all, and gives me a full understanding of everyone's motivation and cause from the minute they revealed the League. It casts Bane in the same light as ra's al ghul, and his character was logical evil who never went around flexing his muscle against anyone. If anything, Bane's a more violent version of ra's al ghul. So if you liked his character in the first, then Bane should be more than sufficient as the bad guy in the third.

Why they had to blow themselves up, too, I don't know, but that seems irrelevant and doesn't ruin anything for me.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby bigken117 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:20 pm

if you attempt to enjoy the movie for what it is .... a movie, it was awesome.

Yeah how does Bruce Wayne get into the city when nobody can get out, and in the enormous city of Gotham he just happens to find Catwoman who just happens to be in the right spot at the right time to keep a kid from getting beat up for taking an apple.

How does the cop who becomes Robin happen to find the one drain in the city where he can drop notes etc to his partner?

How does Bane happen to know where to build his structure underneath all Batman's weapons?

etc etc etc

I had many similar qualms with The Dark Knight.

But it's a movie that isn't made to change the way you think about the world, but to make money.

The only thing I really had a problem with was the cop who later becomes Robin. I was wondering what his deal was the whole time, why they dedicated screen time to him, how a beat cop gets to call out Wayne as Batman and not disappear (like how the other kid in TDR was made to learn to keep his mouth shut.) Once it became clear he was going to become a "hero" why did it have to be Robin?
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The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby medium_robin » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:35 pm

I assumed that they didn't dwell on the result of Cat Woman's shot on Bane so that he could come back in a future movie of necessary. We assume that the shot killed him. But in true comic book fashion, he might not actually be dead.

Bane is supposed to be supper strong due to the stuff his mask is feeding him. I think it's called venom and it's supposed to dull his pain and make him strong.

They never did talk about what made Bane's thugs so loyal. Was it LoS? Was it something else?

I hope they make more Batman movies. They set up to include Robin and left a logical opening that Batman is still alive. Riddler would be cool. I liked how they had a villain very different than the joker for this movie. Something too similar to Joker would have been redundant and depressing.

For the haters/complainers, remember that this is a comic book movie. Physics and sound logic don't always apply. And that's part of the fun of it all!!
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS)

Postby GiantsFan14 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:17 am

bigken117 wrote:if you attempt to enjoy the movie for what it is .... a movie, it was awesome.


if i want to go watch pure action i'll see the expendables. i'm willing to let things slide because i know some of it is necessary to build suspense in a movie and such, but this one seemed to out of it's way to force unbelievable things to happy. scenes jumped around nonstop and didn't flow together, nothing happened for huge chunks of the movie, and the plot and motivations were just way too weak for the limited amount of action to make up for it.

i absolutely loved the first two batmans and was expecting to love this one as well. i really wanted to like it and despite being incredibly bored for the first 45 minutes i still expected that the last two hours would more than make up for it. i go to a batman movie to see batman, and for a batman movie, there was surprisingly little batman actually in it.
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