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7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:27 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:He wasn't awarded a base, he was awarded being safe when by all rules of the game he should have been ruled out. If the initial call was an out, then he needs to be standing on first base, not meandering in between the bases, arguing the call. I could see the argument if he was standing on first and the ruling was overturned to be a trap, and they sent him to second; but he wasn't. He was standing between first and second base, and was tagged. The right call was to call him out. It was botched horribly.

This. The right call wasn't made.

So the right call is to get it wrong?
Brilliant.

No, by the rules, the right call was to call him out. They didn't. What isn't clear about that?
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:01 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
mweir145 wrote:This. The right call wasn't made.

So the right call is to get it wrong?
Brilliant.

No, by the rules, the right call was to call him out. They didn't. What isn't clear about that?

Don't know about that, you are the rules expert I guess, since I don't know all the rules, but it sounds like you do.
But Im open to learn.
What is the rule on a reversed call, that includes a runner forced into an out by an umpire wrongfully?
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:23 pm

It's the umpires' discretion. They can put the runners where they see fit. It's puzzling, though, that they awarded Prado 2nd base considering he was physically tagged out in between 1st and 2nd during the actual play (which is an out whether the ball was trapped or not).
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby garf112 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:40 pm

mweir145 wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
mweir145 wrote:This. The right call wasn't made.

So the right call is to get it wrong?
Brilliant.

No, by the rules, the right call was to call him out. They didn't. What isn't clear about that?


You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):

Rule 9.02 (c) If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had
been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem
necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier
call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those
runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the
initial call,


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:47 pm

I was gone yesterday but I just went back and watched the video and after the initial bad call, it seems to me that everything was handled correctly.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby mweir145 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:08 pm

garf112 wrote:You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):

Rule 9.02 (c) If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had
been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem
necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier
call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those
runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the
initial call,


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.

Fair enough. I knew it was under their discretion to put the runners where they see fit after a reversal, but I guess they also have the power to eliminate any consequences of the previous call too (and the main one was Prado being out). It's odd, but they go forward like the play (and the Prado tag) never even happened.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby garf112 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:28 pm

mweir145 wrote:
garf112 wrote:You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):

Rule 9.02 (c) If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had
been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem
necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier
call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those
runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the
initial call,


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.

Fair enough. I knew it was under their discretion to put the runners where they see fit after a reversal, but I guess they also have the power to eliminate any consequences of the previous call too (and the main one was Prado being out). It's odd, but they go forward like the play (and the Prado tag) never even happened.


Completely bizarre. The calls made no sense (mostly because I was a Mets fan) at the time, but it seems like a rational way to rectify the situation. I just don't get how some of these guys seem to be so bad at their jobs. I know things happen REALLY fast out there, but MLB umps are supposed to be the best of the best at what they do AND they do it full-time.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby daullaz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:16 am

mweir145 wrote:
garf112 wrote:You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):

Rule 9.02 (c) If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had
been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem
necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier
call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those
runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the
initial call,


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.

Fair enough. I knew it was under their discretion to put the runners where they see fit after a reversal, but I guess they also have the power to eliminate any consequences of the previous call too (and the main one was Prado being out). It's odd, but they go forward like the play (and the Prado tag) never even happened.


Did I see the same play as you and h0rt? In the one I saw, Prado made it to second, rounded second, and only returned to first (to get tagged out) after the umpire ruled the ball was caught. It's not like he stayed a few steps off first the entire time trying to figure out whether to run or not. He was only in a position to be tagged out because of the blown call. Umpire makes the call right, Prado's still standing on second when the ball if thrown back to the infield. It's not that the tag "never happened," rather that the tag was completely the byproduct of the bad call.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:05 am

daullaz wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
garf112 wrote:You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):



http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.

Fair enough. I knew it was under their discretion to put the runners where they see fit after a reversal, but I guess they also have the power to eliminate any consequences of the previous call too (and the main one was Prado being out). It's odd, but they go forward like the play (and the Prado tag) never even happened.


Did I see the same play as you and h0rt? In the one I saw, Prado made it to second, rounded second, and only returned to first (to get tagged out) after the umpire ruled the ball was caught. It's not like he stayed a few steps off first the entire time trying to figure out whether to run or not. He was only in a position to be tagged out because of the blown call. Umpire makes the call right, Prado's still standing on second when the ball if thrown back to the infield. It's not that the tag "never happened," rather that the tag was completely the byproduct of the bad call.

Oh, I watched the play (and I did it without any sort of a bias like the Mets/Braves fans in this thread). The fact that Prado actually rounded 2nd on a play that was that close to being caught suggests he made a bad baserunning decision. He was lucky the umpires reversed the call (and to do this, yes, they also erased what happened after it) and rewarded him second base because he probably didn't deserve that much.
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Re: 7/13 - 7/15 Cheering, Venting, & The Cafe's Top 50

Postby mweir145 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:19 am

garf112 wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
garf112 wrote:You are wrong weir. The umpires have the discretion to put Prado on second. If the ump hadn't called the batter out, Prado would have been at second. The rule is 9.02 (c):



http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ib1h78

It was the right call. Horrendous that they even called him out to begin with, but they ultimately got it right. If I'm Collins, I still get thrown out, though.

Fair enough. I knew it was under their discretion to put the runners where they see fit after a reversal, but I guess they also have the power to eliminate any consequences of the previous call too (and the main one was Prado being out). It's odd, but they go forward like the play (and the Prado tag) never even happened.


Completely bizarre. The calls made no sense (mostly because I was a Mets fan) at the time, but it seems like a rational way to rectify the situation. I just don't get how some of these guys seem to be so bad at their jobs. I know things happen REALLY fast out there, but MLB umps are supposed to be the best of the best at what they do AND they do it full-time.

It's just a really tough job. Despite that, they do a good job and get a high percentage of them (including apparently this one), but it's impossible to get all of them. That's why it makes no sense not to have video review in this sport...it's perfect for it.
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