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Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

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Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby kidsilk » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:51 pm

13 team, NL Only league, auction, 7 keepers per year, Weekly changes, 4x4 roto style with cats as Avg, Runs Produced, SB, HR for hitters and ERA, WHIP, Saves, Wins for pitchers.

I am currently tied for 5th but only 2 points out of third and 10 points out of second place. And I have been doing this all year so far without a closer. I am currently last in saves with 1 but I just acquired Frank Francisco in a trade. I am trying to land a second closer to really help me move up in saves as I could move up as much ast 6-8 points just in saves with a good bullpen. I am first in wins by 7 wins and starting pitching is my strength.

SO questions: Should I go for a second closer and if so what do you think about the following offer that has been presented to me?

HIS Santiago Casilla, Greg Dobbs, Sean Burnett for my RA Dickey, Edwin Jackson and Matt Holliday. Now I know it doesn't loo great or perfect but getting a closer in this league is hell and saves are so important being that it is one of four cats for pitching. I will list our rosters if you want to give me a counter offer if you don't like this offer.

My Team:

C-Baker
C-Kottaras
1B-Giambi
2B-Descalso
SS-Theriot
3B-Wright
MI-Bloomquist
CI-Johnson
OF-Bruce
OF-CarGo
OF-Holliday
OF-ALonso
OF-Coghlan
U-Stewart
INJ-Tejada

P-Jackson
P-Dickey
P_McDonald
P-Francisco
P-Burnett
P-Garza
P-Harang
P_MInor
P-Rauch

HIst Team:

C-Castro
C-MOntero
1B-Freeman
2B-Murphy
3B-DObbs
SS-SImmons
MI-Greene
CI-Uribe
OF-PIerre
OF-Hart
OF-Cuddyer
OF-Prado
OF-Stanton
U-Buck

P-Casilla
P-Kimbrel
P_Collmenter
P-Leake
P-Lee
P-Lopez
P_Marcum
P-Ohlendorf
P-Romo
BN-Stauffer
BN-Burnett
P-Camp
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby Jacksonvillezo » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:44 pm

I just do not see it being worth it. You are giving up Holliday and two pretty solid starters. I would take out Dickey or Jackson and replace them with a lesser starter out of your roster like Minor. I still think he gets the better side of the deal, but I understand the rarity of closers in a NL-only league and the value they would have.
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby Eastman19 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:50 pm

No way!!! You are giving too much up....I would just settle for losing that category every week.

see mine

viewtopic.php?t=448776
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby kidsilk » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:57 pm

How about I substitute McDonald for Dickey? The other guy says he has no interest in Harang or Minor and wants two of Dickey, Jackson, McDonald, and Garza. Anymore opinions?
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby Knights » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:14 pm

kidsilk wrote:How about I substitute McDonald for Dickey? The other guy says he has no interest in Harang or Minor and wants two of Dickey, Jackson, McDonald, and Garza. Anymore opinions?


This is a tough one - I like Santiago Casilla a lot as a target closer, but if he's asking for 2 of those 3 pitchers in return I don't think there's any way that you can come out on top in a deal.
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby baegames » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:14 pm

Thanks for the help on mine.

I would look more at guys who could potentially become closers rather than make this deal. Maybe a David hernandez (ari) or anyone in the Cubs pen. David Carpenter (hou) is a possibility.
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby misterf » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Thanks for help with mine.



You really are in a tough spot......my guess is you but I don't think having 1 closer (especially a middle-of-the-road closer like Francisco) on your team does you much good. I know every point counts......but I doubt you can gain much ground with just Francisco.

However, it is a 13-team, NL only league......so very few teams have 2 closers. Accordingly, while having 1 closer doesn't help you much at all.....you could make a big run in the Save category if you can grab a second closer


Which means you have 2 options....fish or cut bait:

1) "Fish": if you decide not to punt saves, you gotta get a 2nd closer and make a real run at the saves category. Having only 1 closer wont be enough to help you out. In addition, I would be aggressive and on the waiver wire looking for a 3rd closer by looking for those closers-in waiting (guys like Wilton Lopez who could take over if the Astros trade Myers).

2) "Cut Bait": If you don't want to pay the premium price for a 2nd closer.....I think you would be better off trading Francisco away for a solid SP or bat and using his roster spot to help you in other categories. Not only wont a 1 closer be enough of a help...but, unfortuately, the only category Francisco helps you in is saves......it's not like he dominates in era or whip like some RP's do.



I'm not a fan of punting categories.....so I say go for it. Yes, you are paying a premium price.......but given the scarcity of closers in your league.....and considering that saves is 1 of only 8 categories......I doubt you could get a much better price.

Plus, Casilla is a legit "#1" closer......not quite "elite", but very solid. Plus he plays for a good team (meaning lots of save chances).....and he does help in the era and whip categories.

It's a risky trade for you.....but you need to take a risk of some kind in your current position (punting saves would be a risk, too). Go big, or stay home, right?
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby misterf » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:02 pm

P.S.

Of course, if you can get Casilla and still hold onto Dickey it becomes a much better deal.

I just think that in this type of league, who could really gain a lot of point if you can be one of only a couple teams in the league that has 2 closers....and if you can somehow score a 3rd closer off the waiver wire at some point, gaining 8-10 points isn't unreasonable.
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby mcmbpd » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:31 pm

I'm gonna have to agree with misterf here...I say you go for it. The cost of the 2nd closer is extremely high, but as you said the returns could definitely be worth it. I'm not a big fan of sitting around and watching the season happen to your team, so that's why I say go all in. I'm wondering though if you might be able to get Kimbrel instead of Casilla. If that's all he'll give you then I say you still have to take it, but if Kimbrel can be had (especially since the cost is so high) then at least that makes this deal a little more paletable with the assistance he'll provide in other categories. I'm not a big fan of Dickey, think he's waaaaay overdue to return to earth as a knuckleballer, so I wouldn't loose sleep over giving him up...but Holliday and Jackson are a different story. I think Holliday is the hardest one for me to give up here, but Jackson finally putting his skill set together with the Nats has me excited about his 2nd half.

So two things:
1) can we get Kimbrel? or is he off limits with this guy?
2) will he accept Alonso, Coghlan in place of Holliday?

If we can't change those perameters then I say you still go ahead and hope for the best. In that scenario I would most definitely still stay hot on that waiver wire to possibly grab a 3rd closer and improve your position even more...you know that another closing situation will change in the NL before the year is out, they always do. With this move though you'll have to be more vigulent than ever to be the one that makes that add when it happens. Good luck, and thanks again for your input on the Weiters/Hellickson for Price/Fowler/J. Montero trade...your info was helpful as always.
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Re: Is a badly needed closer worth this?(WHIR)

Postby ROC AllStars » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:54 pm

Thanks for the help on mine.

This is a tough spot, but I think you're right to think you may be giving away too much. I would wait about two weeks to speculate on potential closers, especially given the high turnover rate at the position this year. After that, if you're still hurting, revisit this deal. I would only do it as a last resort, and I don't think you're there yet. Good luck!
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