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MLB is bush league

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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:45 pm

AHF wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
AHF wrote:The NBA may be the worst sport as far as deliberately inconsistent application of the rules. Do something as a superstar and you get one set of rules. Do something as a scrub and you get another set of rules.

I agree, I hate that too. That is really bush league.
That has to change.

The Tim Duncan ejection is ridiculous. Crawford was an idiot. Period.
It seems like that Camby makes too much contact with Grant Hill, so that call seems ok.


You are OK with sending Steve Nash to the line to take free throws after Marcus Camby (supposedly) makes too much contact with Grant Hill? :-o

Wow. Your standards for refs are much lower than mine. I like it when the refs send the guy fouled to the line instead of someone who wasn't even close to the area where the foul was committed. In my book, that tends to make the foul on Steve Nash look pretty darn suspect.


:-°
I never said anything about Steve Nash. Clearly I said the it was a foul on Camby. Obviously you have reading problems.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:47 pm

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"You should be mindful of the future, but not at the expense of the
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby AHF » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:02 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
AHF wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:I agree, I hate that too. That is really bush league.
That has to change.

The Tim Duncan ejection is ridiculous. Crawford was an idiot. Period.
It seems like that Camby makes too much contact with Grant Hill, so that call seems ok.


You are OK with sending Steve Nash to the line to take free throws after Marcus Camby (supposedly) makes too much contact with Grant Hill? :-o

Wow. Your standards for refs are much lower than mine. I like it when the refs send the guy fouled to the line instead of someone who wasn't even close to the area where the foul was committed. In my book, that tends to make the foul on Steve Nash look pretty darn suspect.


:-°
I never said anything about Steve Nash. Clearly I said the it was a foul on Camby. Obviously you have reading problems.


The call was terribly butchered. Any foul was suspect (that level of contact off the ball is routine) but sending Nash to the line was the big problem.

Good gracious, if I have reading problems, I hope you don't apply the same critical eye and personal nature to your self-examination when you view that clip and somehow come away thinking the problem somehow didn't involve Steve Nash.

That is like watching this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlFMT88acHw

And saying that Wade had good defensive position.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:28 pm

AHF wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
AHF wrote:
You are OK with sending Steve Nash to the line to take free throws after Marcus Camby (supposedly) makes too much contact with Grant Hill? :-o

Wow. Your standards for refs are much lower than mine. I like it when the refs send the guy fouled to the line instead of someone who wasn't even close to the area where the foul was committed. In my book, that tends to make the foul on Steve Nash look pretty darn suspect.


:-°
I never said anything about Steve Nash. Clearly I said the it was a foul on Camby. Obviously you have reading problems.


The call was terribly butchered. Any foul was suspect (that level of contact off the ball is routine) but sending Nash to the line was the big problem.

Good gracious, if I have reading problems, I hope you don't apply the same critical eye and personal nature to your self-examination when you view that clip and somehow come away thinking the problem somehow didn't involve Steve Nash.

That is like watching this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlFMT88acHw

And saying that Wade had good defensive position.


If you don't have reading problems, than you have something else, since you are the only one talking about Nash.
Whatever.
That the call was butchered is your opinion.
I dont know much about NBA rules, but as an outsider, I think it was too much contact.
So it seemed like it was a foul.
End of basketball.
Back to baseball.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby dannahann » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:02 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:Must see video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82GwtwcdPc

Thanks!
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby silentjim » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:02 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:Must see video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82GwtwcdPc


Not much "science" in this one. I'd also be curious how many umps change the strike zone based on the player's actual height and dimensions. I've personally never noticed it when watching games, but I do recall hearing about an old baseball story where some manage pinch hit with a little person and said person walked because of the lack of a "strike zone".
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby AHF » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:22 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
AHF wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
:-°
I never said anything about Steve Nash. Clearly I said the it was a foul on Camby. Obviously you have reading problems.


The call was terribly butchered. Any foul was suspect (that level of contact off the ball is routine) but sending Nash to the line was the big problem.

Good gracious, if I have reading problems, I hope you don't apply the same critical eye and personal nature to your self-examination when you view that clip and somehow come away thinking the problem somehow didn't involve Steve Nash.

That is like watching this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlFMT88acHw

And saying that Wade had good defensive position.


If you don't have reading problems, than you have something else, since you are the only one talking about Nash.
Whatever.
That the call was butchered is your opinion.
I dont know much about NBA rules, but as an outsider, I think it was too much contact.
So it seemed like it was a foul.
End of basketball.
Back to baseball.


You continue to insist it was a good foul and this materially misses the point. The main point was that the foul called involved Steve Nash being sent to the line. Nash was the focal point. Nash is not a 6'8'' black man but he is about the best free throw shooter in NBA history. I'm not sure how you are missing here that the focus is on Crawford insisting Nash go to the line.

Here are excerpts from the clip that should have clued you in that Nash's role was important:

* 0:00 Title has Nash's name in all caps and large font
* 0:16 The video is paused and Nash's name appears under him and he is highlighted (Hill's name does not)
* 0:25 Foul is called and Nash is again highlighted and his name appears (Hill's name does not)
* 0:46 The announcer says the foul must be on someone other than Camby because Camby's wasn't guarding Nash
* 0:53 Nash says he should not be going to the line and Crawford commands him to go to the line because he was the guy fouled; the announcers note that Nash didn't think he should be shooting.
* 1:26 The announcers again question how Nash could be on the line if the foul involved Camby
* 1:40 The announcers point out that Nash is a >90% free throw shooter and say he shouldn't have been shooting (Nash led the league in free throw shooting that season and shot more than 12% better than Hill)

I'm not sure how anyone could watch that and concluded that Nash's involvement was so insignificant to the call that it isn't worth discussing.

There are reasons to gripe about that foul in the playoffs given how ordinary the contact is but there are always plays like that. What makes that play stand out is that:

(1) Nash is sent to the line by Crawford even though he wasn't near where the "foul" was committed.
(2) Nash said he shouldn't be going to the line.
(3) Crawford orders him to the line anyway even though this is clearly an error.

The refs job isn't simply to recognize contact. It also extends to calling the foul on the right player and sending the right player to the line. Sometimes this is difficult. The last part (sending the right player to the line) was quite easy and the player benefiting from this suspect call found it so outrageous that he wasn't even willing to just go with the flow but had to be told to go to the line anyway.

* * * *

On the baseball issue here, I frankly like your suggestion to have a signal to the umpire on balls and strikes (no Eric Gregg situations) as well as jfg's suggestion to have a member of the crew off the field who reviews and gives the decision rather than having the crew put in the position of second guessing their own decision in a procedurally slow and awkward manner.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby AHF » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:34 pm

silentjim wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:Must see video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j82GwtwcdPc


Not much "science" in this one. I'd also be curious how many umps change the strike zone based on the player's actual height and dimensions. I've personally never noticed it when watching games, but I do recall hearing about an old baseball story where some manage pinch hit with a little person and said person walked because of the lack of a "strike zone".


In 1951 Veeck, then the owner of the St. Louis Browns, orchestrated a big day to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the American League. In conjunction with Falstaff Brewery, Veeck had 3-foot-7 inch Eddie Gaedel jump out of a papier-mâché cake between games of a doubleheader between the Browns and Tigers.

The stunt did not go over very well, with fans expecting a lot more out of Veeck. Little did they know that he had secretly signed Gaedel to a contract. When the Browns batted in the first inning of the second game, Veeck sent Gaedel up as a pinch-hitter. Gaedel strode to the plate wearing 1/8 as his uniform number.

The Tigers immediately protested but Veeck had a copy of his signed contract and the umpires inspected the document and allowed Gaedel to bat. He drew a walk on four pitches and the Browns immediately inserted a pinch-runner into the game. It was the only time Gaedel ever appeared in a game.

The American League immediately voided his contract. Major League Baseball also required all contracts to be approved by the Commissioner before a player could appear in a game following Gaedel's appearance.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:55 am

AHF wrote:You continue to insist it was a good foul and this materially misses the point. The main point was that the foul called involved Steve Nash being sent to the line. Nash was the focal point.

Your initial post gave me the clue was about Camby, and nothing about Nash:
AHF wrote:But at least Crawford knows how to keep Camby in check!

So I watched the video and confirmed that it seemed like it was a deserved foul call on Camby. Didnt watch it any further. Thats it.
AHF wrote:I'm not sure how anyone could watch that and concluded that Nash's involvement was so insignificant to the call that it isn't worth discussing.

As I said, didnt watch it since the Nash problem wasnt mentioned.
So you are the only one who concluded anything on that.
Now I watched the whole video, since you cant let it go, and I really dont wanna talk about basketball any longer.
Since Im merely a basketball fan, and not that knowledgeable about NBA rules, I cant comment on basketball like I comment on baseball, so I dont know why Nash was sent on the line, but personally I think it should have been Grant Hill.

AHF wrote:There are reasons to gripe about that foul in the playoffs given how ordinary the contact is but there are always plays like that.

As far I know the same foul rules apply in the regular season and in the playoffs .
That didnt look like ordinary contact. If that contact happens all the times, and it's against the rules, than it must be called every time.
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Re: MLB is bush league

Postby AHF » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:21 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
AHF wrote:As far I know the same foul rules apply in the regular season and in the playoffs .
That didnt look like ordinary contact. If that contact happens all the times, and it's against the rules, than it must be called every time.

Here are what others who make a living on basketball had to say:

"Worst Foul Call Ever In The NBA"
http://dimemag.com/2010/04/the-worst-fo ... n-the-nba/

"The Most Questionable Foul Call In The NBA Playoffs"
http://www.totalprosports.com/2010/04/2 ... -playoffs/

"Worst Foul Call In The History Of The NBA"
http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2010/ ... f-the-nba/

etc.

You are an excellent poster here, have a ton to offer on baseball and fantasy baseball, and this is a baseball forum so I will drop any further discussion of this NBA call.
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