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Cliff Lee and the Phils

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Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby bazzy_51 » Wed May 30, 2012 10:12 am

So didn't honestly realize just how 'bad' of a year Lee was having thus far. He's my #1 in my main league, but hasn't been beaten out thus far, in terms of total points, by my late round flier, Wandy Rodriguez. Looking at it Lee has just been flat as unlucky as you can get so far, winless in 7 starts, 2 losses are the only chalk marks in the W-L column. Sporting a 0.96 WHIP and a nice 2.82ERA with a 47/5 K/BB mark is very sexy as a #1, but no wins is killing me.

So what are your thoughts, I know the Phils are struggling with the bats and theres not a thing you can do with Lee right now, because fair trade value has dried up. But when, if, do we see the Phils move Lee via trade. I have to believe it's an option somewhere in Philly especially with the massive offensive struggles and injuries to some big names for them, but especially with Halladay's recent injury and being put on the shelf for a while with a shoulder that is ailing. Could we expect yet another 'contender' trade for Lee in the near future?
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby slomo007 » Wed May 30, 2012 10:21 am

I doubt they'll be able to trade him without eating some of his salary, which I doubt they'll be willing to do. I think it's more likely they deal Hamels instead.

I have kind of accepted the fact that he won't get many Ws for me at least until Utley and Howard are back, but am complimenting him with Holland, Darvish, and Harrison who should get plenty of Ws with higher ratios. I figure between the 4 of them they should all balance each other out nicely. Any chance you have pitchers like these, or Nova, Bucholz, or Doubront available? They would fit the mold as well.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby bazzy_51 » Wed May 30, 2012 10:36 am

slomo007 wrote:I doubt they'll be able to trade him without eating some of his salary, which I doubt they'll be willing to do. I think it's more likely they deal Hamels instead.

I have kind of accepted the fact that he won't get many Ws for me at least until Utley and Howard are back, but am complimenting him with Holland, Darvish, and Harrison who should get plenty of Ws with higher ratios. I figure between the 4 of them they should all balance each other out nicely. Any chance you have pitchers like these, or Nova, Bucholz, or Doubront available? They would fit the mold as well.


See and I'm not thinking total rebuild mode, but the Phils poured all kinds of bucks into this squad a couple years back and now it seems age is finally catching up with some of the corner stones of this squad. Injuries have hampered them, don't get me wrong I understand that, and I also understand you can't just pack the tents in after some struggles, but at this point Lee is about the only major piece that has true value still. Meaning they would be able to unload him still without eating much of his contract because he is actually producing unlike his big money counter parts.

As for your question, not a chance lol, its an 18-team league, start a full cast of 5SP, weekly lineups, plus bench slots, so best available are names like Bard, Williams, Cobb, Hochevar and Happ lol. But in this league I can't play balance numbers because the league counts just about every stat, which means negatives across the board also, so with no Ws Lee has tallied 66pts, Bard with 5 wins has only tallied 43pts because of the 5 losses, 31BB and 51HA.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby slomo007 » Wed May 30, 2012 11:27 am

Well if they didn't eat any of his salary, they probably wouldn't be looking at much in return prospect-wise which wouldn't really help the team rebuild any quicker, it would just save the owners money.

He's making $25M per year for the next 3 years guaranteed. There aren't a lot of teams that would even take him on if he were placed on waivers because not many teams can afford that type of pitcher. That's the problem with these huge contracts, and the reason why once you sign them you rarely see those players moved anywhere else. This is the #1 reason I don't want the Rangers to re-sign Josh Hamilton. If you sign a big name player you better be sure they will produce for you long term, because the odds of getting out of that contract are slim to none. Even when they have generally produced, like Lee has, that's just a ton of money to give someone and not many teams can do it.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Wed May 30, 2012 12:36 pm

slomo007 wrote:I have kind of accepted the fact that he won't get many Ws for me at least until Utley and Howard are back, ...

Hamels has 8 wins
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby thatguy27 » Wed May 30, 2012 6:12 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
slomo007 wrote:I have kind of accepted the fact that he won't get many Ws for me at least until Utley and Howard are back, ...

Hamels has 8 wins


Exactly. Lee has had, I think, the worst run support in the league. He's not going to repeat his 17 wins from last season, most likely. But all we should care about is what he does going forward. And I don't think that 12-14 wins the rest of the way is out of the question by any means, especially with Howard/Utley due back at some point. With a healthy Utley and Howard, I could easily see 8-10 wins post ASB. And I have to assume he'll pick up at least 3-5 wins prior to then. I'm not worried about Lee at all.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby thatguy27 » Wed May 30, 2012 6:16 pm

In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and predict that he gets W numero uno tonight against the Mets. 8 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 9 K's--basically vintage Lee--and 1 sparking W.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby thatguy27 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:56 am

Guess I was a little off. But still, Lee will be fine. Still top 5.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby Skin Blues » Thu May 31, 2012 7:34 am

The Phillies would have absolutely no problem trading Lee for good prospects. Teams would be lining up to only have a 3-4 year burden on their hands for Lee versus the amount of years Hamels/Greinke will get at similar annual salary in the offseason (plus they get him for the playoffs this year for a cheap pro-rated $7M+). It's been a year and a half since he signed his contract. The Yankees outbid the Phillies but Lee took less money to go to Philly, so he wasn't even at market value. Since that point, he has a 2.52 ERA in almost 300 IP. Now, the question is if Philly even wants to trade him. With Utley and Howard gone all year and not much sign of hope for the future, Halladay being out 2 months and possibly more, their top prospect becoming a bust, the impending loss of Hamels... things aren't looking good. But still, Halladay/Lee is a deadly combo and all they'd have to do is make the playoffs to have a good shot at winning it all.
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Re: Cliff Lee and the Phils

Postby dannahann » Thu May 31, 2012 9:31 am

I'm in no way a fan of the Phillies but they aren't dead. Despite all their issues the Phillies are only 1.5 games out of a wildcard slot and 3 back for the division. Right now the Nats are better but they certainly still have a fighters shot at the division and most certainly at a WC berth. Even good teams with big leads choke away playoff berths, just ask last year's Braves and Red Sox. Worley is nearly back, he can help while waiting on Halladay. Even if Doc is just 80% effective when he comes back, I'd hate to face him, Lee, and Hamels in a playoff series. The lineup should get stronger and Utley and Howard should be fresh in Sept. They spent to win now so I just don't see them trading Lee. They are still going to be strapped with (must win now) older players on big contracts next year too, whether they traded Lee or not. Might as well retain him and take the lesser shot to win in 2013 too. Hamels is the decision, not Lee IMO. If for some reason they fall way back and don't see a way to afford him, they might opt to make the unpopular business move and trade him for future success.
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