Why holds are a bad fantasy stat - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Commissioner's Corner

Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby Xander756 » Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 pm

Another article I wanted to share with / get feedback from fellow league commissioners here. Do you use holds in your league? What do you think of using them?

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-hol ... ntasy-stat
Xander756
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 30
Joined: 1 Apr 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bklynkenny » Sat May 26, 2012 8:17 am

The writer's opinion is that in real life, the role of a closer is more important than the role of a middle relief pitcher. Closers are typically the best relief pitcher in the bullpen, so it may seem that way, but we are talking about the *roles* here, not the players in those roles.

I disagree with the writer's opinion, so in my league, I give equal weight to holds and saves. I also run a points league, not a roto or a H2H category league, so it does not matter to my league members if a player is in middle relief or is a closer.
bklynkenny
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 49
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: New York City

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby Quackman » Sun May 27, 2012 1:15 am

I have holds in a couple leagues. Personally i think they are fun. Its almost like a minor league for closers. This year has been crazy and the line between 8th inn/9th is very grey. Even this week, clippard a great hold guy and now he could be a really sick closer. Same thing with frieri this week. Its always rotating.
Quackman
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 554
(Past Year: 64)
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bigmck » Mon May 28, 2012 2:11 pm

This year is the first time I have used Holds in a league. I don't like it because there are so few of them. In H2H leagues if you get 2 in a week, you have a good chance to win the category.
bigmck
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1033
(Past Year: 58)
Joined: 9 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Houston

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bklynkenny » Mon May 28, 2012 3:15 pm

bigmck wrote:This year is the first time I have used Holds in a league. I don't like it because there are so few of them. In H2H leagues if you get 2 in a week, you have a good chance to win the category.


Well then, there's your key to winning. Instead of getting mediocre closers, get great middle relief instead.

Holds are more common in deep leagues.
bklynkenny
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 49
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: New York City

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bigmck » Mon May 28, 2012 9:15 pm

bklynkenny wrote:
Holds are more common in deep leagues.


That makes no sense. If a league uses the top 40% of players and there are X number of holds, then if a league uses the top 60% of the players, those players in the 40% to 60% will add so many more holds to your league. No, I don't think so.
bigmck
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1033
(Past Year: 58)
Joined: 9 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Houston

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bklynkenny » Mon May 28, 2012 9:20 pm

I meant commissioners of deeper leagues tend to use holds as a category more often than commissioners of shallower leagues.

This places more value on the quality of the relief pitcher rather than the role in which he is used in real life. A closer with a 4.50 ERA wouldn't be more valuable than a middle relief pitcher with a 3.00 ERA.
bklynkenny
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 49
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: New York City

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby mkultra » Tue May 29, 2012 10:42 am

bklynkenny wrote:I meant commissioners of deeper leagues tend to use holds as a category more often than commissioners of shallower leagues.


I'd be curious about the data here, because my gut tells me that's not true. This is completely anecdotal based on what I've read around here over the years, but I feel like Holds crop up more in the "better than beginner, but not expert" leagues that are looking around for extra categories. I think people gravitate toward it because it's a counting stat for pitchers (which are few and far between relative to hitters) and it makes you think you're doing something useful with middle relievers.

Personally, I think it's a crap stat. Not only is it purely situational, it's even worse than Saves or Wins are rewarding "good" pitching. Because all you need for a Hold is to pitch in relief with the tying run on deck and get one out, you can walk the bases loaded, get one out, and record a Hold. Even if the next pitcher gives up the lead because of guys you put on base, you get the Hold. If you want to increase the value of middle relievers, use K/9 or K:BB.

Here's a stat I wish people tracked- the Quality Inning. You pitch an entire inning in relief, allow no more than 1 hit OR walk, don't hit a batter, and don't allow a run.
mkultra
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1339
(Past Year: 41)
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bklynkenny » Tue May 29, 2012 11:07 am

Quality inning sounds like a good idea.

In deep leagues, if there are no holds, I would want there to be no saves or wins either.

It would be interesting to see a survey of the depth of the leagues in which holds are used. I don't have any numbers to back up my claim so im curious. Perhaps we could try to start one here? I have a 30 team with 25 man active roster league and use holds in a H2H points system.
bklynkenny
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 49
Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: New York City

Re: Why holds are a bad fantasy stat

Postby bigmck » Tue May 29, 2012 2:17 pm

bklynkenny wrote:
It would be interesting to see a survey of the depth of the leagues in which holds are used. I don't have any numbers to back up my claim so im curious. Perhaps we could try to start one here? I have a 30 team with 25 man active roster league and use holds in a H2H points system.


The league that I am in that uses holds is a 16 team league whose pitching spots are broken down as follows = 5 SP, 2 RP and 2 P. There is also a 6 player bench. Assuming 3 of the benches are for pitchers, I would think all of them would be used for starters. That leaves 2 RP for closers and the other 2 for holds. At the end of the seventh week of play there are 260 holds in our league verses 329 for saves. There are far fewer holds in the league. If you divide that it comes to 2.32 holds per week per team. That makes just getting a couple holds each week giving the team a good chance to win the category. That is why I don't like it.
bigmck
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1033
(Past Year: 58)
Joined: 9 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Houston

Next

Return to Commissioner's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Aug. 22
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Baltimore at Chi Cubs
(2:20 pm)
Houston at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
St. Louis at Philadelphia
(7:05 pm)
San Francisco at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Tampa Bay at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Atlanta at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Seattle at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Kansas City at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Pittsburgh at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
Detroit at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
Miami at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
San Diego at Arizona
(9:40 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
NY Mets at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact