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Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Sat May 05, 2012 12:49 am

Here's one that's always annoyed me: Why is it just accepted for the rules of the game not to be followed or consistent? What I mean, is, why is it just accepted that each ump has their own strike zone? Why is the "neighborhood" play allowed? Why do some umps call tag plays differently than others ( I swear some umps don't actually pay attention to whether or not a player is tagged). But it's not so much the fact that umps miss calls that annoys me, it's the fact that it many cases it is accepted that umps don't even try to call the game by the rules. I feel like the game should be called as close to the rules as possible, not by whatever rules that particular ump feels should be the rules.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby Izenhart » Sat May 05, 2012 7:54 am

One that annoys me is when a batter leans into a pitch and gets hit is awarded 1st base. If a batter does not attempt to get out of the ball's way they are not supposed to be awarded 1st.

I also feel there should be a penalty for players sliding into second base trying to break up the double play who slide 3 feet wide of the bag and don't actually touch it. This being an accepted play is what brought about the 'neighborhood' rule where the runner is out even if the fielder isn't on the bag when he catches the ball. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Too many pitchers pitching from the stretch never come to a complete stop yet balks are rarely called for that.

My biggest peeve is closers. The fact they even exist baffles me. Hey we have a 2 run lead going to the ninth inning, lets completely ignore all logic and automatically bring in this guy every time we are in this situation. That way if we lose I, the manager, can blame him, because it's HIS job to finish games, its not my job to manage them properly. My job is to cover my own butt and be able to say "Hey I did everything by the book you can't argue with my managing style. If he keeps failing I'll just put someone else in the role and you can blame him if he fails too, or you can blame the GM for giving me such crappy players."

I admit there is a certain coolness factor to an intimidating, dominating closer. I always wanted to see the Big Unit try his hand at closing for a year or two.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby Skin Blues » Sat May 05, 2012 8:23 am

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Here's one that's always annoyed me: Why is it just accepted for the rules of the game not to be followed or consistent? What I mean, is, why is it just accepted that each ump has their own strike zone? Why is the "neighborhood" play allowed? Why do some umps call tag plays differently than others ( I swear some umps don't actually pay attention to whether or not a player is tagged). But it's not so much the fact that umps miss calls that annoys me, it's the fact that it many cases it is accepted that umps don't even try to call the game by the rules. I feel like the game should be called as close to the rules as possible, not by whatever rules that particular ump feels should be the rules.

There's an ump in our league that I have heard on more than one occasion say "if you take the first two strikes, you better start swinging because I'm gonna call the third one if it's anywhere close".

As for sliding into second, the batter is called out if the runner can't reach the base with any part of his body. And there's nothing wrong with that. And its called when it happens. Usually it looks blatant that they were way too wide, but they can usually reach it with their hand.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby grizfan » Sat May 05, 2012 12:05 pm

I agree completely with the calling of balls and strikes. It is very inconsistent from ump to ump at all levels, and leaves the batter (and pitcher) guessing. It should not matter whether the batter has swung at the first two, if the pitcher is hitting his spots, or where the catcher is set up. If it is a strike by definition it is a strike, if not it is not.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Sat May 05, 2012 2:28 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Here's one that's always annoyed me: Why is it just accepted for the rules of the game not to be followed or consistent? What I mean, is, why is it just accepted that each ump has their own strike zone?

I guess it's all media BS again. It is not accepted, but umpires are human too, and humans are not droids.
The strike zone is different for every batter too.
Where you can expect some sort of consistency is inside and outside cause that is established by the plate.
But, the umpire's view somtimes is blocked by the catcher, so he has to reposition himself, and from that angle he might see borderline a pitch a ball or a strike.
Or actually sometimes the catcher blocks the view so much that the umpire can't even see a pitch right down the middle.
A small umpire behind a tall catcher is a nightmare. The pitcher should forget the low strikes.
And there is the 'bad pitch', when the catcher sets up inside, so the umpire has to move more inside, and the pitcher misses badly but the ball actually goes through the zone outside. Theres no way that the umpire can see that. He is positioned to have the best view to see a pitch on the inside.

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Why is the "neighborhood" play allowed?

It is not allowed.
Middle infielders do a toe drag to touch the base, while trying to complete a double play.
But it's real hard to see if a shortstop touches the base or not when he runs to the base while recieving the throw.
It is quite impossible to see if the toe drag is real good.
Umpires must accept the it was a touch.


buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Why do some umps call tag plays differently than others ( I swear some umps don't actually pay attention to whether or not a player is tagged).

What?

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:But it's not so much the fact that umps miss calls that annoys me, it's the fact that it many cases it is accepted that umps don't even try to call the game by the rules. I feel like the game should be called as close to the rules as possible, not by whatever rules that particular ump feels should be the rules.


It is not accepted. Don't know what you talkin about.
You just made this up?
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Sat May 05, 2012 2:49 pm

Izenhart wrote:One that annoys me is when a batter leans into a pitch and gets hit is awarded 1st base. If a batter does not attempt to get out of the ball's way they are not supposed to be awarded 1st.

This annoys me too.
The rule is clear:
6.08 (b)
The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put
out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when—
He is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball
is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to
avoid being touched by the ball;


Izenhart wrote:I also feel there should be a penalty for players sliding into second base trying to break up the double play who slide 3 feet wide of the bag and don't actually touch it. This being an accepted play is what brought about the 'neighborhood' rule where the runner is out even if the fielder isn't on the bag when he catches the ball. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Skin Blues is right.
It is interference and there is a penalty.
Rule 7.09 (f)
And theres no such thing as in the neighborhood rule. Thats media crap.

Izenhart wrote:Too many pitchers pitching from the stretch never come to a complete stop yet balks are rarely called for that.

Agreed. The pitcher has to come a comlpete stop for about a second.
It's a quickpitch. Pitcher should be penalized.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby benb18a » Sat May 05, 2012 3:38 pm

I've seen several batters get hit and not awarded first, based on apparently not making every possible effort to get out of the way. It is umpire dependent. A lot of times a guy will twist away from the pitch, so their forearm gets hit, but they get first despite their body not getting out of the way, just a different body part getting hit than if they were to stand there in their stance. Usually they're awarded first, but sometimes not.
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Sat May 05, 2012 11:10 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Here's one that's always annoyed me: Why is it just accepted for the rules of the game not to be followed or consistent? What I mean, is, why is it just accepted that each ump has their own strike zone?

I guess it's all media BS again. It is not accepted, but umpires are human too, and humans are not droids.
The strike zone is different for every batter too.
Where you can expect some sort of consistency is inside and outside cause that is established by the plate.
But, the umpire's view sometimes is blocked by the catcher, so he has to reposition himself, and from that angle he might see borderline a pitch a ball or a strike.
Or actually sometimes the catcher blocks the view so much that the umpire can't even see a pitch right down the middle.
A small umpire behind a tall catcher is a nightmare. The pitcher should forget the low strikes.
And there is the 'bad pitch', when the catcher sets up inside, so the umpire has to move more inside, and the pitcher misses badly but the ball actually goes through the zone outside. Theres no way that the umpire can see that. He is positioned to have the best view to see a pitch on the inside.



Every umpire has their own strike zone. That's a hard fact to dispute if you look at umpire calls statistically though PitchFX.

Whether or not it's "intentional" or "accepted" is a different question. I do agree with you that it is impossible (or at least humanly impossible) to get every call correct when umpiring home plate (I umped little league for a few years back in high school, it's why I quit). But to me, the fact that you see the same guys have "small" or "large" strike zones year after year tells me that maybe it's not "intentional", but it is accepted. Somebody should be critiquing the umps, and the umpires ought to be responding (making better calls) as a result of this criticism. I don't see that though.

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Why is the "neighborhood" play allowed?

It is not allowed.
Middle infielders do a toe drag to touch the base, while trying to complete a double play.
But it's real hard to see if a shortstop touches the base or not when he runs to the base while recieving the throw.
It is quite impossible to see if the toe drag is real good.
Umpires must accept the it was a touch.
[/quote]

Technically, it isn't allowed, and umps aren't supposed to allow it. It certainly used to occur though and be an accepted part of the game (this has gotten better in the past few years). But I personally know umpires who intentionally allow it (below the Major League level, they allow it because it's a safety issue if they don't), and from watching games it seems like it certainly is generally allowed as long as the infielder gets close to the base at around the time that they receive the ball, and everything "looks" smooth. To be fair though, this may be a situation where the "spirit of the rule" overrides if the umpire can't conclusively tell it was an out [but I'm willing to believe that there are still umps in MLB who knowingly call the "neighborhood" play, unfortunately there's no way to prove or disprove this].



buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Why do some umps call tag plays differently than others ( I swear some umps don't actually pay attention to whether or not a player is tagged).
[/quote]
What?
[/quote]

I don't have true "evidence" that the phantom tag play occurs intentionally, at least at the major-league level. I do have a quote from a former head of NCAA officiating that I found though; here it is.

on Bible, NCAA/CWS/Former NCAA Umpire Coordinator, in My Referee-online via TheArbiter.net, article for newer umpires. From 2002.

"The same approach applies to the "neighborhood play," on which the infielder turns a double play by cutting across the bag a second before getting the throw, or straddling it without tagging it. If the throw is accurate and the fielder could have made the play properly, he will get an out call from me, because the offense has not been harmed and enforcing the rule literally increases the chances of the fielder being injured by a sliding runner. By contrast, if the throw is off-target and the fielder has to stretch for it, I will make him touch the bag, for giving him the call in that case would put the offense at a clear disadvantage.

What about the first baseman who pulls his foot off the bag a split-second before catching the throw? Same philosophy. If the throw is accurate and it is not a bang-bang play, I don't care if he cheats a bit because no one is hurt. But if the toss is off-line or the play is a whacker, he must do things correctly. That also applies to fielders tagging runners. If the ball beats a runner who slides straight into the bag and the fielder makes a decent tag attempt, I don't worry whether the glove touched the runner. If, however, the runner makes a great slide away from the bag and the fielder has to chase him with the glove, he must make contact; otherwise, the runner will be unfairly deprived of the results of his good effort."

I have a real problem with this "guesstimating" type of calling. Call the game by the rules, so that everyone knows what the rules actually are. Otherwise it's way too confusing. That applies to the balk rules as well. I think what annoys me the most honestly is the arrogance of some umps, acting as if their call is always the right call...
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby ABA316 » Sun May 06, 2012 12:27 am

Syfo-Dyas wrote:1. I'd take 3 HRs instead of a cycle any day. But we all know that hitting 3 HRs in a game is impossible..


I'm going to take a stab that you didn't notice Braun doing it 2 days before this post..
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Re: Five Bull@#$% traditions that annoy me about Baseball.

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Sun May 06, 2012 1:03 am

ABA316 wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:1. I'd take 3 HRs instead of a cycle any day. But we all know that hitting 3 HRs in a game is impossible..


I'm going to take a stab that you didn't notice Braun doing it 2 days before this post..

Nice try. I didn't fall off the turnip truck the day before yesterday. Or something like that.
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