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How to use your bench

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Re: How to use your bench

Postby interchange » Tue May 01, 2012 7:04 am

I do a lot of platooning based on L/R and matchup. In general it works, but it really stings when a player hits 2 HR from your bench.

I think better than that is having position flexibility. That can really help you on days where there isn't a full slate of games and covering for injuries.

Regarding deeper pitching...I've learned over the years that quality beats quantity every day.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby Izenhart » Tue May 01, 2012 8:51 am

interchange wrote:Regarding deeper pitching...I've learned over the years that quality beats quantity every day.


This is rule #1 in any league with a max innings. It becomes a k/9 league where bad pitching hurts you more than anything. I have one team that is dominating everything except W, ERA and WHIP. Wainwright, Johnson, Lester among others have me struggling to get my ERA under 5 and my WHIP under 1.4, yet I'm in second place in the league.

The leagues I typically play in require 1400 innings for roto. 6 good starters get you 1200 innings and 4 relievers should get you another 200, so most of my teams have 2 bench pitchers and three bench hitters. I use the three bench hitters to cover all positions except C. I like to have a C like Mauer/Posey/Santana who will play as many of the 162 games as possible given a full year of health. I have a lot of 1B/OF types and 2B/3B/SS types on my bench like Morales, LaHair, Swisher, Andino, Aviles and Bonifacio.

I also like to draft players who have multiple eligibility like Pablo Sandoval, Michael Young, Hanley Ramirez, etc.

As far as having a revolving door spot for streaming, sometimes it isn't necessary. But in most cases with imperfect drafts it can help a lot.

reaching your max games/inning limits as effectively as possible wins leagues.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby Ender » Tue May 01, 2012 9:16 am

Regarding deeper pitching...I've learned over the years that quality beats quantity every day.


It depends on what you mean by this I guess. I think having more than one ace is pretty much a waste these days. I'd rather have a deep rotation of pretty good but pretty safe pitchers than going with a few aces and then fleshing out the rotation with upside guys or mediocre guys. Hitting is about studs, pitching is all about depth.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby CBMGreatOne » Tue May 01, 2012 6:45 pm

Ender wrote:
Regarding deeper pitching...I've learned over the years that quality beats quantity every day.


It depends on what you mean by this I guess. I think having more than one ace is pretty much a waste these days. I'd rather have a deep rotation of pretty good but pretty safe pitchers than going with a few aces and then fleshing out the rotation with upside guys or mediocre guys. Hitting is about studs, pitching is all about depth.


If you've ever owned Roy Halladay, you know that pitching can be about studs as well. Yes I want depth, but if you can get an absolute ace, let alone two, it can really give you a lot of breathing room so that the rest of your pitching doesn't have to be awesome.

Give me Halladay and Kershaw and I will compete in all pitching categories (besides saves of course) if I literally only stream every other starter. I've already added Niese, Colon, Kuroda, Floyd from free agency in different leagues who could be reasonable 3rd/4th starters. There's plenty of production on the waiver wire.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby West » Tue May 01, 2012 6:54 pm

CBMGreatOne wrote:There's something very comfortable about regarding the last couple of spots on your roster as revolving doors. These days very few MLB players play 162 games and being able to maximize your games eligibility and innings cap necessitates streaming both pitchers and hitters. In one of my leagues I already have 51 moves. I'm always grabbing a middle infielder to play on a Monday, a catcher to stream when mine is sitting, a CI for Todd Helton's day off, etc. Inevitably, you'll find yourself with a roster full of players that you don't feel like you can drop, but if you can be realistic about what replacement level production/talent really is, you can usually figure out how to keep that stream spot or two open.

In another league I have a super-platoon OF/Util where I'm rotating guys like Cody Ross, Mark Trumbo, Chipper Jones and Matt Joyce, none of whom are playing every day, but all of whom are producing when in the lineup.

Ultimately, the key to bench management is understanding replacement level and acting accordingly. Yes, you will get burned when you drop someone who ends up being legit every once in a while, but in my opinion, a couple such instances don't add up to negating the advantage you get from having a flexible roster.


Excellent. Summed up how I feel nicely.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby Ender » Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm

If you've ever owned Roy Halladay, you know that pitching can be about studs as well. Yes I want depth, but if you can get an absolute ace, let alone two, it can really give you a lot of breathing room so that the rest of your pitching doesn't have to be awesome.

Give me Halladay and Kershaw and I will compete in all pitching categories (besides saves of course) if I literally only stream every other starter. I've already added Niese, Colon, Kuroda, Floyd from free agency in different leagues who could be reasonable 3rd/4th starters. There's plenty of production on the waiver wire.


I guess we just disagree then. Seems like the guy who takes the two aces never finishes at the top in any of my leagues. You can easily work around not having top end pitchers, it is a lot harder to work around not having stud hitters.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby CBMGreatOne » Thu May 03, 2012 1:42 am

Ender wrote:
If you've ever owned Roy Halladay, you know that pitching can be about studs as well. Yes I want depth, but if you can get an absolute ace, let alone two, it can really give you a lot of breathing room so that the rest of your pitching doesn't have to be awesome.

Give me Halladay and Kershaw and I will compete in all pitching categories (besides saves of course) if I literally only stream every other starter. I've already added Niese, Colon, Kuroda, Floyd from free agency in different leagues who could be reasonable 3rd/4th starters. There's plenty of production on the waiver wire.


I guess we just disagree then. Seems like the guy who takes the two aces never finishes at the top in any of my leagues. You can easily work around not having top end pitchers, it is a lot harder to work around not having stud hitters.


I agree that you can manage without stud pitchers, but not without stud hitters, but the implementation is where I differ. In my 12 team league last year, I went studs and scrubs for both hitting and pitching, grabbing Halladay for $38 and not investing heavily in any other pitcher. It probably took hitting on guys like Beckett for $5 and Pineda for $1, but Halladay being in the mix really anchored my rotation and took the pressure off of me having to make sure I had lots of quality depth. That isn't to say that I didn't also grab stud hitters as I spent big on Votto, VMart, Bruce, Phillips, Heyward (bust). I ended up winning the league more on the strength of my pitching than my hitting even though I probably spent 190 of my 260 budget on hitters.

I think there is a school of thought re: pitching where you get one super stud or two pitchers in tier 1A and then stream most of the rest of your innings and it can be very effective without draining too much of your budget from your hitters.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby Ender » Thu May 03, 2012 8:55 am

I definitely like taking one pretty safe ace though I don't think it is wise to take one of the top 3 or so guys since it is pretty likely they won't significantly out earn the next bunch of guys. The thing with pitching is ERA, WHIP and W are all very high variance stats but the variance is lower the better the pitcher since things like BABIP, LOB% and HR/FB don't effect high K, low BB guys as much so having that one anchor is a pretty big deal.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby kab21 » Thu May 03, 2012 10:49 am

Ender wrote:I definitely like taking one pretty safe ace though I don't think it is wise to take one of the top 3 or so guys since it is pretty likely they won't significantly out earn the next bunch of guys. The thing with pitching is ERA, WHIP and W are all very high variance stats but the variance is lower the better the pitcher since things like BABIP, LOB% and HR/FB don't effect high K, low BB guys as much so having that one anchor is a pretty big deal.


I like getting one of the 2nd tier aces (Hamels, Lester, Gallardo, Haren, etc... tier). Or even 2 from that tier. I definitely do not like taking a pitcher in the top 25 because there is a big drop in hitters around there.
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Re: How to use your bench

Postby acb23 » Sat May 05, 2012 2:00 pm

How you should use your bench should change radically based on the type of league you're in.

Shallow/mixed leagues:
Fill your bench with high upside guys. Don't waste your team with platoon players or replacement-level guys. Those guys are always available as free agents.

Deep/single-leagues:
In this type of league, you want setup guys and bench guys who will get a lot of at-bats. A guy like Scott Hairston or Tony Gwynn, Jr. is worth keeping on your bench in a league like this. Those guys are getting ab's and will be immediate fill-ins on your team if someone goes down and will get a HUGE value boost if anyone on their real-life teams hits the DL.
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