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Starting zero relievers/closers?

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Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby benb18a » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:28 pm

I don't know how much experimentation has been done in the past with this, but I have the opportunity to start two "RPs" in Feliz and Sale that are both currently full-time, solid starters. I know it's early, but my plan to dominate K's and Wins with six solid starters and the occasional Saves victory with two relievers that project at around 40 saves isn't looking very good at this point, as I'll likely be 0-4 in Ks and Wins at the end of this week. One problem I foresee with this, is that I'm guaranteed to lose Saves 100% of the time (unless we tie 0-0 which I highly doubt would happen more than once for the season), and my team is on pace for about 40 steals for the season, another category I'm going to lose every week without making significant starting roster changes. So, come playoff time, with consistency out the window, I'm in an 0-2 hole and need to win at least 5 of 8 other categories, and if I run into a buzzsaw week from an opponent's slugger I'm toast. The good news is, I'd likely be able to get some halfway decent value for at least Valverde with the rash of closer injuries and very questionable closers that have been used so far.

Anybody have any experience or observations with this? Is it something that sounds good on paper, and is generally counterproductive?
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby Skin Blues » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:37 pm

How often will you have enough starters going on a given day to require putting a guy into an RP slot? And how often is one of those guys going to be Feliz or Sale? I'd ignore that aspect of it. Keep in mind that punting W and K is fairly common so your'e not gonna have an easy time since other teams are losing up on the other categories. I think it's a bad idea, to be honest.
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby benb18a » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:50 pm

Skin Blues wrote:How often will you have enough starters going on a given day to require putting a guy into an RP slot? And how often is one of those guys going to be Feliz or Sale? I'd ignore that aspect of it. Keep in mind that punting W and K is fairly common so your'e not gonna have an easy time since other teams are losing up on the other categories. I think it's a bad idea, to be honest.


What do you mean require? I thought most normal leagues require two RPs at all times?

I'd hypothetically have Sale and Feliz in RP at all times, and plug in Haren, Strasburg, Greinke, Marcum, Peavy, Harrison, and whoever I can get in return for the closers I'd move, and eventually Fister, so I'd pretty much have 10+ starts each week easily.

Punting W and K is fairly common? I'm not very familiar with "punt" in this context, but doesn't that mean disregarded or sacrificed for emphasis on other categories? Or do you mean people try to stack up Ws and Ks and disregard saves?
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
BN: Howard, Rizzo, Donaldson
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Peavy Sale, Valverde, Axford, Greinke, Marcum, Estrada, Capuano, Hughes, Haren

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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:53 pm

He meant punting saves is relatively common, which is that thing you're doing. Also, what he means by "require" is how often will all your starters be going on one day, necessitating you to put Sale and Bard in the RP spots rather than have to bench someone who's starting that day? Otherwise, you're just rolling with players that produce zero 5 or 6 days a week.
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby benb18a » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:06 pm

I would be rostering around 10-12 pitchers, so I really doubt I would see any starts benched, unless they're a horrible matchup. The idea is to maximize wins and Ks by having guys that actually start games in both RP slots. The more "starters" I have on the roster, the more wins and Ks I am likely to end up with.
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
BN: Howard, Rizzo, Donaldson
DL: Tulo
Peavy Sale, Valverde, Axford, Greinke, Marcum, Estrada, Capuano, Hughes, Haren

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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby Ender » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:48 am

In H2H leagues I don't like punting any stats at all, it just ends up hurting you especially come playoff time.
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby bayside » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:50 am

Is this a weekly lineup league or daily?
In daily leagues this strategy is almost sure to fail. In weekly leagues it *could* potenially be pretty successful.

What SkinBlues is trying to say is that in a daily lineup change league, you will almost never have enough pitchers starting on the same day for you to need to use a RP spot for a starter. normally youll have 2-3 starters going at once max, and you can just throw them in your SP or P slots. in that scenario youll just be wasting the RP slots and get zero production from them.

In weekly leagues you do have a clear advantage by having 2 more starting pitchers than your opponent going every week.
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby benb18a » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:34 am

I see. Never thought about it that way, that I'm actually getting the same amount of starts by having a bench with active starters, and on top of it two dedicated relievers. ;-D

Actually, now that I think about it, having 3-4 closers is actually ideal, because even with 8-10 starters you're not really gonna need all those starting slots every day, and if you do you simply bench one reliever. I just spent some time looking over the rosters of the teams in my league. Some of them have up to four closers in their lineup, and then rotate in starters throughout the week.

I'm still used to the "set the lineup by Thursday/Sunday and leave it, periodically checking player news" mindset of FF :*)

Actually, I think my opponent this week, who might squeak out a victory against me despite the biblical pitching ratio and accumulated offensive stats, might have the right approach to a pitching staff. He has Verlander and Halladay, and then three very solid closers and a fourth closer, and is able to rotate in a starter or two off his bench every day. So basically he has the uber-studs and then builds depth around them and will pile up the pitching category wins by simply having a ridiculous amount of innings each week, especially with quality guys going. I'm not used to this dynamic aspect of your lineup. Having one RB/WR flex position is about the extent of the diversity of most FF teams :-b
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
BN: Howard, Rizzo, Donaldson
DL: Tulo
Peavy Sale, Valverde, Axford, Greinke, Marcum, Estrada, Capuano, Hughes, Haren

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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:45 am

benb18a wrote:despite the biblical pitching ratio

A 3.16 ERA isn't that great. Unless he had 316 strikeouts, in which case holy crap.
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Re: Starting zero relievers/closers?

Postby benb18a » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:19 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
benb18a wrote:despite the biblical pitching ratio

A 3.16 ERA isn't that great. Unless he had 316 strikeouts, in which case holy crap.


Correct. But a 2.43 ERA and .98 WHIP isn't too shabby, when looking at 60 IP. In fact I believe pitchers have won Player of the Month honors with worse ratios/less innings of work :P
1B: Freeman 2B: Craig 3B: Beltre SS: Seager C: Lucroy OF: Granderson, Harper, BJ Up UT: Kipnis, Aoki
BN: Howard, Rizzo, Donaldson
DL: Tulo
Peavy Sale, Valverde, Axford, Greinke, Marcum, Estrada, Capuano, Hughes, Haren

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