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Giants extend MATT CAIN

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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby Grounded Polo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:29 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
Grounded Polo wrote:Christ, Barry Zito is still signed at max money for another 2 seasons, 3 if he stays healthy in 2013. :-*

This was a good move though, won't get much better than Cain on the open market.


There is exactly a 0% chance that the Giants allow Zito's option for 2014 to vest.


True, Giants will finally be free after 2013, no Zito, Huff, Rowand, etc., just Cain at this point. They need to flip Wilson for prospects before he breaks down aka will happen soon. Romo can close.

Element wrote:It's been a disappointing day for me. With this news for Cain and the news that Votto and the Reds are closing in on an extension it leaves two less players for Magic to Co. to target this winter (or at the deadline) if/when payroll expands. It was a good move for the Midgets.


Could wait until next winter and break the bank for Timmay, he's going to wanna get paid. The Votto deal is yeesh, don't think any one player is worth that much money in baseball, not like a QB in football.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby GiantsFan14 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 pm

Grounded Polo wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
Grounded Polo wrote:Christ, Barry Zito is still signed at max money for another 2 seasons, 3 if he stays healthy in 2013. :-*

This was a good move though, won't get much better than Cain on the open market.


There is exactly a 0% chance that the Giants allow Zito's option for 2014 to vest.


True, Giants will finally be free after 2013, no Zito, Huff, Rowand, etc., just Cain at this point. They need to flip Wilson for prospects before he breaks down aka will happen soon. Romo can close.

Element wrote:It's been a disappointing day for me. With this news for Cain and the news that Votto and the Reds are closing in on an extension it leaves two less players for Magic to Co. to target this winter (or at the deadline) if/when payroll expands. It was a good move for the Midgets.


Could wait until next winter and break the bank for Timmay, he's going to wanna get paid. The Votto deal is yeesh, don't think any one player is worth that much money in baseball, not like a QB in football.


12 years is absolutely nuts. i'm pretty much hoping the Giants don't sign Timmy at this point. He's going to command a ton of money and his peripherals have been on the decline for like three years now.

as for wilson, trading him would be nice but I don't see the Giants doing it, he's worth too much to them as a marketing ploy, I doubt they'd get enough value in return for what he's worth to the club. I'm just hoping they don't sign him to a papelbon deal, that could be disastrous.

i hope the next step is an extension for bumgarner that gives the giants a couple of his free agent years, something like luebke's deal would be sweet, though he'll probably cost a bit more than that.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby Grounded Polo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:06 pm

Yeah, at this point, the smart thing is to let him reach free agency and just see what the market dictates. Cain is the safer starter to sign long term (longer durability, lesser ego) and Bumgarner is another ace in the making. It sounds like he wants to get more than CC and at that point, SF is better off letting him walk and allocating that money to Bumgarner/Posey/Panda.

I doubt they'll give Wilson a horrific Papelbon contract, they seemed to have wisened up after Zito contracts wise - see the Melky signing and letting Beltran walk.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby jfg » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Nobody seems to be too upset over this. It seems like a lot of money to throw at a guy who hasn't yet had a season that even warranted top 5 pitcher consideration in the NL. He got himself Cy Young money when all he's been so far is a solid ace. Let's see now what Felix and Verlander get in two years.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby Skin Blues » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:57 pm

There's something to be said for putting up solid ace numbers for 5 consecutive, healthy years. Of course he's helped by the park but he's been everything they've asked for and never gets injured. Although it's always extremely risky to give a deal this long to a pitcher.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:25 pm

I like Cain, but 22 mil a year is insane.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby jfg » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:32 pm

Not that he's "only" getting paid for his durability, but it's not super exciting to see a pitcher getting paid that kind of money for chalking up 200 innings a year. He's been a very good pitcher but not a great one yet. Getting paid on durability is a very risky contract, it holds no guarantee that he doesn't blow something out tomorrow or a year into his contract. See: Santana, Johan and countless other pitchers. At least Santana was dominant when he signed the contract.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby Snakes Gould » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:17 am

im unhappy because cole hamels is undoubtedly more valuable than cain so i guess the phillies can throw that little 5 yrs 100 mil contract out the window. :-[
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 am

jfg wrote:Not that he's "only" getting paid for his durability, but it's not super exciting to see a pitcher getting paid that kind of money for chalking up 200 innings a year. He's been a very good pitcher but not a great one yet. Getting paid on durability is a very risky contract, it holds no guarantee that he doesn't blow something out tomorrow or a year into his contract. See: Santana, Johan and countless other pitchers. At least Santana was dominant when he signed the contract.


Yes durability is part of it (he's averaged almost 220 innings a season over the last four years), but he's still only 27, has been trending the right way for the last few years now, and has a career ERA of 3.35 with ERAs of 2.89, 3.14, and 2.88 over the last three years. It's a combination of all that and the fact that they would have had a very pissed off fanbase if he had left for LA or NY.

Also, Johan signed that contract four years ago. CJ wilson got an offer for $100MM, it's really not all that out of line in today's market. It's still a lot of money for a pitcher, but if they were gonna spend it on someone, I'm glad it was Cain.
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Re: Giants extend MATT CAIN

Postby bayside » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:44 am

jfg wrote:Nobody seems to be too upset over this. It seems like a lot of money to throw at a guy who hasn't yet had a season that even warranted top 5 pitcher consideration in the NL. He got himself Cy Young money when all he's been so far is a solid ace. Let's see now what Felix and Verlander get in two years.

Amongst all pitchers in MLB over the past 4 seasons:

1) hes 9th in innings pitched
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=12,d

2) hes 15th in WAR
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=18,d

3) hes 6th in games started
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... 0&sort=6,d

4) hes 10th in ERA
(and dont tell me era is meaningless and try to give me a lesson on FIP - era is a record of what actually happened )
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p ... &sort=15,a

so i'd say hes one of the safest bets of any pitcher in all of baseball to give this type of contract to. hes much younger than many of the guys that are ahead of him in the above categories, hes been one of the absolute most durable, and one of the most effective.




edit - lol GiantsFan must've been submitting his post at the same time I was writing out mine.
quoted the same guy and made basically the same point
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