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Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby Pinstripe Alley » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:41 am

GiantsFan14 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:Betancourt
Motte

Marshall
Broxton

Balfour
Nathan
Perez


swap broxton and balfour and i like this.


+1, swap Broxton and Balfour and it's $$ imo.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:43 am

Motte and Betancourt are the easy option for me.

And I would love to see the math behind how you estimate saves.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:18 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
Information people really need to know:

Right now Balfour and Nathan have no competition, and should be just fine. Nathan should have 35+ saves, while Balfour projects around 30 saves.

Perez had an ERA of 2.65 on Sep 4, than he had 2 bad games. No need to worry. Around 30 saves.


HOOTIE wrote:Perez K/9 has dropped to below 6, that's not good.
His xFIP was 5.01.
Vinnie Pestano is so much better, Perez is hanging by a rope.

Yet the manager never even considered removing Perez.
Safe.
And as I mentioned many times, having your best reliever as your closer is not a necessity.
On the contrary. But thats another topic, that has been debated here at the café.

HOOTIE wrote:Balfour has Fuentes right there, although he's just as bad.
Fautino De Los Santos has the best stuff in pen, and could take it if Balfour struggles.

"Athletics manager Bob Melvin indicated ... that Fautino De Los Santos is not being considered for the team's ninth-inning opening."
Fuentes sucks.
As I said, no competitition.

HOOTIE wrote:Nathan has no competition? Just Mike Adams, one of the top 5 non closers around.

Mike Adams never closed and always been considered as a setup pitcher by the Rangers and by the Friars.
As I said, no competition.

HOOTIE wrote:If i was Nathan, i would sleep with one eye open.

Probably theres only one player who is safe as closer.
Mariano Rivera.
Even all time saves leader Trevor Hoffman was replaced.
So every closer who sucks beyond bearable will be replaced.
In case of Rivera, if he sucks, he won't be replaced. He will be placed on DL.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:21 pm

If Perez, Nathan, or Balfour blow up this year, we will see if they keep their job.
If you don't think Pestano and Adams are threats, and better, i guess we agree to disagree.
I know have won't own Nathan or Perez on any of my 8 teams.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:27 pm

HOOTIE wrote:If Perez, Nathan, or Balfour blow up this year, we will see if they keep their job.
If you don't think Pestano and Adams are threats, and better, i guess we agree to disagree.
I know have won't own Nathan or Perez on any of my 8 teams.

You don't get it.
Managers named them closers.
Period.
Pestano and Adams are no threats anymore. This is not an open competition.
And as I said if Nathan or Perez suck they will be replaced. Just as any other closer, but Rivera.
I even think that Papelbon could be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on that.
So whats your point singling out this 3 guys?
You have Pestano and Adams on your team?
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:40 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:If Perez, Nathan, or Balfour blow up this year, we will see if they keep their job.
If you don't think Pestano and Adams are threats, and better, i guess we agree to disagree.
I know have won't own Nathan or Perez on any of my 8 teams.

You don't get it.
Managers named them closers.
Period.
Pestano and Adams are no threats anymore. This is not an open competition.
And as I said if Nathan or Perez suck they will be replaced. Just as any other closer, but Rivera.
I even think that Papelbon could be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on that.
So whats your point singling out this 3 guys?
You have Pestano and Adams on your team?


Managers name their closers, big deal?
A lot can change quickly.
I didn't say they were competing.
I said Nathan and Perez aren't that good, that each could lose their job, with a shorter leash then a good closer.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby MaudDib » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:46 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:If Perez, Nathan, or Balfour blow up this year, we will see if they keep their job.
If you don't think Pestano and Adams are threats, and better, i guess we agree to disagree.
I know have won't own Nathan or Perez on any of my 8 teams.

You don't get it.
Managers named them closers.
Period.
Pestano and Adams are no threats anymore. This is not an open competition.
And as I said if Nathan or Perez suck they will be replaced. Just as any other closer, but Rivera.
I even think that Papelbon could be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on that.
So whats your point singling out this 3 guys?
You have Pestano and Adams on your team?

It might not be open now but that doesn't mean it will be that way all year regardless of how they pitch. No closer is safe. We have had two closers get lost for the season already and another one is starting the season on the DL. To say they have no threats is not looking at relief pitching the way it should be. There will be closers who get lose their job at some point this year, it is just a matter of who and for what reason. It could be injury, ineffectiveness or being traded.

His point is that these three have more problems or question marks than the others. Nathan was pretty ineffective last year and until we see him get back to his old self his job could be in question. At which point Adams is probably the guy (unless Feliz struggles with starting at which point he could get his old job back). Balfour was pretty good last year so I don't expect him to lose his job but he could or he could get traded. De Los Santos is pretty good and might not have been in the running in Spring Training but that doesn't mean he can't get the job. Perez seemed shaky last year. His ERA might not be that bad but his K/9 dropped by almost 3 last year and has been declining since 2009 and his BB/9 is way too high at almost 4 per game. When your K/BB is almost 1:1 that is bad news for a closer.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:09 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:If Perez, Nathan, or Balfour blow up this year, we will see if they keep their job.
If you don't think Pestano and Adams are threats, and better, i guess we agree to disagree.
I know have won't own Nathan or Perez on any of my 8 teams.

You don't get it.
Managers named them closers.
Period.
Pestano and Adams are no threats anymore. This is not an open competition.
And as I said if Nathan or Perez suck they will be replaced. Just as any other closer, but Rivera.
I even think that Papelbon could be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on that.
So whats your point singling out this 3 guys?
You have Pestano and Adams on your team?


Managers name their closers, big deal?
A lot can change quickly.
I didn't say they were competing.
I said Nathan and Perez aren't that good, that each could lose their job, with a shorter leash then a good closer.


Yes it's a big deal cus they don't have to pitch as well as the other guy. They only have to get the job done.
Managers don't care about FIP, xFIP or SIERA. They don't even know about these things.
Managers don't care about pitchers k/9.
They only care about results.
You say Nathan and Perez aren't that good.
But they proved it that they can get the job done.
Shorter leash?
Prior the 2010 season Broxton was ranked as the top closer by Yahoo.
He pitched lights out for 3 months. Then suddenly he couldn't get the job done.
He was out of job pretty fast.

The good closer gets the job done. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:13 pm

I avoid closers who are at risk to blow up.
2 reasons.

1. I don't want the bad whip and era.
2. They are at risk, more then a good closer, of losing their jobs during the season.

I won't own guys like Nathan, Capps, Perez, Johnson.
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Re: Motte, Marshall, Bentancourt, Broxon or Nathan. WHIR

Postby MaudDib » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:30 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:
Managers name their closers, big deal?
A lot can change quickly.
I didn't say they were competing.
I said Nathan and Perez aren't that good, that each could lose their job, with a shorter leash then a good closer.


Yes it's a big deal cus they don't have to pitch as well as the other guy. They only have to get the job done.
Managers don't care about FIP, xFIP or SIERA. They don't even know about these things.
Managers don't care about pitchers k/9.
They only care about results.
You say Nathan and Perez aren't that good.
But they proved it that they can get the job done.
Shorter leash?
Prior the 2010 season Broxton was ranked as the top closer by Yahoo.
He pitched lights out for 3 months. Then suddenly he couldn't get the job done.
He was out of job pretty fast.

The good closer gets the job done. Nothing more, nothing less.


Not sure what you are arguing here. Everyone agrees that Nathan and Perez have the job. But then you go on to point out that a closer can lose a job pretty quickly if he is ineffective. When you do fantasy, part of what you are doing is projecting what a pitcher will do, not what he has done. Perez has gotten the job done but hasn't done it well so if you are projecting a guy to lose his job, his name would be pretty high on the list. Nathan was pretty bad last year and until he proves that he is completely healthy, you have to wonder if he will stay healthy and be effective as well.

Yes they have the job now but that doesn't mean they will continue to hold the job all year. That is the point Hootie is making. He doesn't think Perez or Nathan hold the job all year for whatever reason and like you pointed out if a guy doesn't get the job done, he is gone. So again what are you arguing here? They have the managers backing today but that means little if they don't keep it.
Last edited by MaudDib on Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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