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Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHair?

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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby sigriffey » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:32 pm

If u are moving pence u should get a proven commodity like Gio in return.

I accepted the Hamels deal. Thanks so much for your help!
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby slomojo » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:01 pm

I like LaHair, and even though I'm not that high on Pence this year, I would be wary about giving up the best player in the deal, unless you have the guy upgrade a pitcher. You should definitely consider moving Pence for something better, because he's not really a lock for 20 steals anymore. Philly doesn't run that much.

Help me out when you get a chance: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=442492
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby NolanPatrick » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:27 pm

I agree that adding Gio makes it better.

I can tell you that Cleveland fans are bracing for a down year from Tomlin. He is gritty, but we are not sure how far that will take him again this year. I feel much better about Lowe at 4 than Tomlin at 5.
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby joeyg2323 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:32 pm

gio 202.0ip 16w 197ks 3.12era 1.32whip
jair 152 ip 13w 90k 2.96era 1.22 whip

why does gio make this trade so much better? jair is a better pitcher then gio, just have to take the risk of him staying healthy
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby NolanPatrick » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:40 pm

Jair doesnt go past 6 innings much. The Braves better get their runs early for him.

Jair on a better team than Gio. But maybe the tide is turning on that.

Didn't it seem Gio was taking a bigger step last year? It did to me.
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:02 pm

joeyg2323 wrote:gio 202.0ip 16w 197ks 3.12era 1.32whip
jair 152 ip 13w 90k 2.96era 1.22 whip]

why does gio make this trade so much better? jair is a better pitcher then gio, just have to take the risk of him staying healthy


You can't just throw a few numbers out there. You have to look deeper, and see if it's legit?
ERA in a given year can be very flawed.

Jurgens babip was .269. Strand rate was 81%.
.290 babip is average, 75% strand rate is average.
Jurrjens era should have been over 4.
His xFIP was 4.23.
Jurrjens K/9 is under 6, very low.
Gio was almost 9 K/9.

It's not even close. Gio is a very good SP. Jurrjens imo is below league average.
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby joeyg2323 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:27 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
joeyg2323 wrote:gio 202.0ip 16w 197ks 3.12era 1.32whip
jair 152 ip 13w 90k 2.96era 1.22 whip]

why does gio make this trade so much better? jair is a better pitcher then gio, just have to take the risk of him staying healthy


You can't just throw a few numbers out there. You have to look deeper, and see if it's legit?
ERA in a given year can be very flawed.

Jurgens babip was .269. Strand rate was 81%.
.290 babip is average, 75% strand rate is average.
Jurrjens era should have been over 4.
His xFIP was 4.23.
Jurrjens K/9 is under 6, very low.
Gio was almost 9 K/9.

It's not even close. Gio is a very good SP. Jurrjens imo is below league average.


W, ERA, WHIP all that matters for a pitcher. you said jair era should have been over 4? well it was under 3 so theres something wrong with your method....

and its not even close?

jair in 115GS is 50-33 3.40era 1.28whip and 480k
gio in 89 gs is 38-32 3.93era 1.41 whip and 511k


the only thing gio is giving you better is Ks. Jair gets wins have a lower ERA and WHIP.
just because gio got traded in the offseason doesnt raise his stock like everyone thinks, he actually left an easier division and is now pitching in one of the 2 best divisions in baseball.

and it is actually pretty close between the two giving jair a slight edge.
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:30 pm

joeyg2323 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
joeyg2323 wrote:gio 202.0ip 16w 197ks 3.12era 1.32whip
jair 152 ip 13w 90k 2.96era 1.22 whip]

why does gio make this trade so much better? jair is a better pitcher then gio, just have to take the risk of him staying healthy


You can't just throw a few numbers out there. You have to look deeper, and see if it's legit?
ERA in a given year can be very flawed.

Jurgens babip was .269. Strand rate was 81%.
.290 babip is average, 75% strand rate is average.
Jurrjens era should have been over 4.
His xFIP was 4.23.
Jurrjens K/9 is under 6, very low.
Gio was almost 9 K/9.

It's not even close. Gio is a very good SP. Jurrjens imo is below league average.


W, ERA, WHIP all that matters for a pitcher. you said jair era should have been over 4? well it was under 3 so theres something wrong with your method....

and its not even close?

jair in 115GS is 50-33 3.40era 1.28whip and 480k
gio in 89 gs is 38-32 3.93era 1.41 whip and 511k


the only thing gio is giving you better is Ks. Jair gets wins have a lower ERA and WHIP.
just because gio got traded in the offseason doesnt raise his stock like everyone thinks, he actually left an easier division and is now pitching in one of the 2 best divisions in baseball.

and it is actually pretty close between the two giving jair a slight edge.


You have a lot to learn. Good luck!!
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby joeyg2323 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:33 pm

HOOTIE wrote:
joeyg2323 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
You can't just throw a few numbers out there. You have to look deeper, and see if it's legit?
ERA in a given year can be very flawed.

Jurgens babip was .269. Strand rate was 81%.
.290 babip is average, 75% strand rate is average.
Jurrjens era should have been over 4.
His xFIP was 4.23.
Jurrjens K/9 is under 6, very low.
Gio was almost 9 K/9.

It's not even close. Gio is a very good SP. Jurrjens imo is below league average.


W, ERA, WHIP all that matters for a pitcher. you said jair era should have been over 4? well it was under 3 so theres something wrong with your method....

and its not even close?

jair in 115GS is 50-33 3.40era 1.28whip and 480k
gio in 89 gs is 38-32 3.93era 1.41 whip and 511k


the only thing gio is giving you better is Ks. Jair gets wins have a lower ERA and WHIP.
just because gio got traded in the offseason doesnt raise his stock like everyone thinks, he actually left an easier division and is now pitching in one of the 2 best divisions in baseball.

and it is actually pretty close between the two giving jair a slight edge.


You have a lot to learn. Good luck!!




numbers dont lie...
"They give you a round bat and they throw you a round ball. And they tell you to hit it square."-Willie Stargell
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Re: Pence,Lowe,Tomlin for Hunter, Collmenter, Jurrjens,LaHai

Postby HOOTIE » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:38 pm

joeyg2323 wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
joeyg2323 wrote:
W, ERA, WHIP all that matters for a pitcher. you said jair era should have been over 4? well it was under 3 so theres something wrong with your method....

and its not even close?

jair in 115GS is 50-33 3.40era 1.28whip and 480k
gio in 89 gs is 38-32 3.93era 1.41 whip and 511k


the only thing gio is giving you better is Ks. Jair gets wins have a lower ERA and WHIP.
just because gio got traded in the offseason doesnt raise his stock like everyone thinks, he actually left an easier division and is now pitching in one of the 2 best divisions in baseball.

and it is actually pretty close between the two giving jair a slight edge.


You have a lot to learn. Good luck!!




numbers dont lie...


The numbers you say matter, do lie. You have to look deeper.
Wins are really team dependent. You can't chase wins, because run support, defense, bullpen, play such a huge role.
ERA can be misleading.
Ever hear of babip? strand rate? hr/fb ratio?
The stats that mater are K/9, K/BB.
You won't find person who thinks Jurrjens is better then Gio.
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