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Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

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Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby GibandLou » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:41 pm

I am the Commish of a 10-team, 5x5, mixed keeper league. This is a "money" league and consists mostly of local guys who meet live for the draft and occasionally during the season for beers and what-not.

We launched the League in 2009 and have always had 7 keepers, which were the first 7 picks of a team's draft. However, after a few seasons, what we've realized is that the bottom-feeders tend to have a serious up-hill climb to be competitive due to the quality of the top-tier teams' keeper lists. We're trying to incent all 10 teams to be active and to have a vested interest in pursuing their fair share of the 4-figure pot at the end of the season.

*** New Keeper Rules ***
Beginning at the conclusion of the 2012 season, all keepers will be kept in the round in which they were originally selected, in the season they became a keeper. This will allow all teams to make keeper decisions based not just upon the player, but also upon the "cost" of keeping the player. Keeping David Price in the 21st round is a no-brainer...so is NOT keeping David Wright in the first round.

My questions for the Cafe are:
    Is 7 too many keepers for a 24-man roster league?
    Does your league have a "term limit" on how long a team may keep their keepers? If so, what is the limit and why?
    Does your league increment the round at which a player is kept, i.e. drafted in Round 7, kept at Round 6?
    What happens when players have the same keeper value? We are just starting this rule, so several rosters have multiple guys kept at Round 8, or Round 9, or Round 10?
    What about waiver pick-ups? Can those players become keepers? If so, at what round?
    If a player is traded, does his keeper value follow him? I think it has to follow him, and it is an element of consideration in the trade, but I have to ask.
    Other thoughts?

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments.

Gibby
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby jefferey13 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:39 pm

Is 7 too many keepers for a 24-man roster league? Nope

Does your league have a "term limit" on how long a team may keep their keepers? If so, what is the limit and why? Yes it does, but we are going to switch to auction with inflating costs, which I think is the best way to go.

Does your league increment the round at which a player is kept, i.e. drafted in Round 7, kept at Round 6? It will be auction, bc espn takes all keepers out initially.

What happens when players have the same keeper value? We are just starting this rule, so several rosters have multiple guys kept at Round 8, or Round 9, or Round 10? Don't know for your league

What about waiver pick-ups? Can those players become keepers? If so, at what round? We allow anyone to be kept

If a player is traded, does his keeper value follow him? I think it has to follow him, and it is an element of consideration in the trade, but I have to ask.- Once again I'd use auction
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby bigmck » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:31 pm

GibandLou wrote:I am the Commish of a 10-team, 5x5, mixed keeper league. This is a "money" league and consists mostly of local guys who meet live for the draft and occasionally during the season for beers and what-not.

We launched the League in 2009 and have always had 7 keepers, which were the first 7 picks of a team's draft. However, after a few seasons, what we've realized is that the bottom-feeders tend to have a serious up-hill climb to be competitive due to the quality of the top-tier teams' keeper lists. We're trying to incent all 10 teams to be active and to have a vested interest in pursuing their fair share of the 4-figure pot at the end of the season.

*** New Keeper Rules ***
Beginning at the conclusion of the 2012 season, all keepers will be kept in the round in which they were originally selected, in the season they became a keeper. This will allow all teams to make keeper decisions based not just upon the player, but also upon the "cost" of keeping the player. Keeping David Price in the 21st round is a no-brainer...so is NOT keeping David Wright in the first round.

My questions for the Cafe are:
    Is 7 too many keepers for a 24-man roster league? == Between 5 and 7 is good. No more than 7.
    Does your league have a "term limit" on how long a team may keep their keepers? If so, what is the limit and why? Three years is a good number.
    Does your league increment the round at which a player is kept, i.e. drafted in Round 7, kept at Round 6? No
    What happens when players have the same keeper value? We are just starting this rule, so several rosters have multiple guys kept at Round 8, or Round 9, or Round 10? == ??????
    What about waiver pick-ups? Can those players become keepers? If so, at what round? == They of course would be in their second year if kept and make the first waiver kept Round 7, second waiver kept Round 6 etc
    If a player is traded, does his keeper value follow him? I think it has to follow him, and it is an element of consideration in the trade, but I have to ask. == Yes the year and the Keeper Round would follow him.
    Other thoughts?

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments.

Gibby
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby GibandLou » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:11 pm

Thanks for the replies, folks. Unfortunately, this league will never be an auction league. We'll have to do our best with a serpentine draft.

What I meant by the idea that a couple of teams have multiple keepers from Round 8 and Round 9 is that our keepers are currently our Rounds 1 - 7 picks. Therefore, Rounds 8 and 9 have the best-available players in them, usually. Since teams have been in the league for multiple years, a player drafted 2 years ago in Round 8 could still be a keeper, along with last year's Round 8 pick. Thus, both keepers in year 3 are Round 8 keepers.

We'll likely go to an "up to 7 keepers" rule, with keepers filling the rounds in which they were taken. If you don't keep 7, then you'll end up with an extra draft pick.

I think I'll encounter a lot of resistance to the concept of instituting a "term limit". So I'm still looking for feedback on this one.
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby bigmck » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:42 pm

GibandLou wrote:
I think I'll encounter a lot of resistance to the concept of instituting a "term limit". So I'm still looking for feedback on this one.


If you don't have a limit on Keepers, the top 70 or so players will always be kept and no one else will have a shot at them. The bottom teams will not be able to improve their team due to all of the good players being kept. Even MLB has a rule that if a player is in the minors of a MLB team after six years, he becomes a free agent. They don't want one team to keep the good players forever. Same thing in Fantasy.
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby soxfansam » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:19 pm

I've had this exact draft set up in my league since 2006. The only thing different we only keep 3 players. Our league charges $300.00 fee to join plus $3.00 for any transaction. We draft 26 rnds, we have 12 teams. I had fielder as a 17th rn until last year when I didn't keep him as a keeper. Now he is a first rnd pick & know one will keep as a keeper any more because they don't want to lose their 1st rnd pick. I think it's the best drafting system it makes you think more in a trade and at draft time. My keepers now are Braun @ 23 Pedroia @ 16 & Zimmerman @ 7.
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby jedvii » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:08 pm

We allow owners to keep 5 players each year, BUT you can only keep 3 of the 5 players you kept last year. This stimulates trading because an owner with 5 solid keepers needs to trade 2 of them away before the next season or risk getting nothing for them. This owner has several options for trading away these players. He can trade them away for other players in season, he can trade them away for draft picks, he can trade them for other keepers in the off season, and he can trade them as "players to be named later" (In a trade he might get Verlander and the other guy might get MIguel Cabrera after the seaon-during the season he would have both verlander and cabrera on his team at the same time). In order to prevent "loaning of players" we have a rule that you can't trade for a player you have traded away for 1 year-unless that player had been drafted, or dropped and cleared waivers.

hope that made sense.

-jed
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby Pack83 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:46 pm

GibandLou wrote:My questions for the Cafe are:
    Is 7 too many keepers for a 24-man roster league?
    Does your league have a "term limit" on how long a team may keep their keepers? If so, what is the limit and why?
    Does your league increment the round at which a player is kept, i.e. drafted in Round 7, kept at Round 6?
    What happens when players have the same keeper value? We are just starting this rule, so several rosters have multiple guys kept at Round 8, or Round 9, or Round 10?
    What about waiver pick-ups? Can those players become keepers? If so, at what round?
    If a player is traded, does his keeper value follow him? I think it has to follow him, and it is an element of consideration in the trade, but I have to ask.
    Other thoughts?
Gibby


7 keepers is not too many. We have up to 7 on 21 man rosters.
No term limits but I've always liked that idea. The majority of my league doesn't support it.
No incrementing.
For players with the same value the first player kept keeps that value the next player is assigned the next lowest value. So if you're keeping two 8th round picks one costs you an 8 the other costs you a 9.
Waiver pick ups can be keepers and they're put at the end of the draft.
Traded keepers retain their value.
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby GibandLou » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm

Thanks to everyone for sharing your ideas, thoughts and experiences. I'm moving forward with a keeper modification proposal as follows:

- Each team keeps up to 7 players, assigned to the round that corresponds to the player’s “keeper value”.
- "Keeper Value" is defined as a number equal to the round in which a keeper is initially acquired by the keeping team.
- Draft begins in Round 1; teams make a selection in each round in which they have no keeper; draft continues until each 24-man team is complete
- Players acquired via waiver-claims have a “keeper value” of 12 (I fully expect this to be discussed and modified to a higher number)
- No player may be kept in a round below their keeper value (keeping 2 with a keeper value of 8 would require the 2nd to be kept in Round 7, vs Round 9)
- Traded players retain their keeper value. Waived players must clear a waiver period of 2 days before their keeper value becomes 12 (or whatever we agree upon).

We have another proposal that would set the draft order at 4-5-6-7-8-9-10-3-2-1 (serpentine) to reward players for staying active and competitive throughout the season. Our top 3 teams win money, BTW. The concept is to no longer reward teams who SUCK and QUIT to have the first picks of the draft.

Our draft is tonight. I'll post the results of these rules changes tomorrow, in case you're curious.
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Re: Tweaking our keeper rules - need feedback

Postby jefferey13 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:34 pm

I think those changes will be good for your league. Your league isn't through ESPN right? They don't allow for the setup you're talking about. Also I like the NBA format for the draft. I don't want people to plan and lose game for a better draft pick, but I do want to give the worse teams a leg up. If the only reason a team quits is to get 1st draft, then a lottery would prevent that because it will be random either way. If a team just quits, giving them a worse draft pick the upcoming year isn't going to solve the problem, they will still just quit next year too.
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