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Head to Head Points Strategy

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Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby Drewbacca81 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:14 am

So, I've created a head-to-head points league for the first time over on Yahoo. We have several people in the league that are new to fantasy baseball but have played fantasy football. So I thought that adding a similar scoring system would be easier for them, in addition to being a fresh change for the rest of us. None of us have every done a league like this before. We're using the ESPN standard scoring for it, which is as follows:

single: 1 point
double: 2 points
triple: 3 points
HR: 4 points
SB: 1 point
RBI: 1 point
runs: 1 point
strikeout: -1 point
BB/IBB: 1 point

win: 5 points
loss: -5 points
save: 5 points
out: 1 point (or 3 points/IP)
strikeout: 1 point
hit: -1 point
BB: -1 point
HBP: -1 point
ER: -2 points

Anyway, there are some concerns that some of the other managers and I have about this scoring format, almost all involving pitchers. My biggest concern is pitcher stacking. Our league has a Monday deadline for roster moves. I'm not quite sure what that means in Yahoo leagues. If it means that the lineup you have on Monday is the same for the entire week, that makes this concern void. But, if you can still switch starters and bench players throughout the week, then it may make sense to only have starting pitchers in your bench spots. I looked at last year stats, and pitchers generally score positive points when they play. Sure, you may have a negative game with a bad loss, but they frequently at least get a couple points per game. There's no way to set an innings max in Yahoo H2H points leagues. Is this a concern? Or does it balance itself out with bad losses.

My next thought is that pitchers that pitch 2 games in a week are going to be hugely more beneficial than ones that only pitch 1 game. If an ace pitches two 20+ games in a week, that's over 40 points. While this balances itself over the season, it does create a pretty big sense of randomness to each week's game. You could have the vastly superior team, but if the other team's pitchers are all pitching 2 games that week, you could be screwed.

Finally, I'm a little concerned that if you don't one of the top 4-5 starting pitchers, you may be a little screwed.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on my concerns, or advice for changing the scoring, please let me know. I'm really excited about this year, as it has so many unknown factors, but I don't want it to be a total bust.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby shawngee03 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:34 am

yes, weekly lineups is the best way to go. if not, then a weekly max on starts is also workable.

and yes, 2 start pitchers will be valuable. but thats not earth shattering. many sites, including yahoo, will post all the 2 start pitchers on sunday just for leagues like yours.

so yes, i woudl still stack my bench w starters and try and capitalize on as many 2 start pitchers as possible. but keep in mind that any 2 start pitcher is not what you wnat, only good 2 start pitchers. i read something a while ago that showed that throwing a good starter only once more than not got you more points that a crappy 2 start pitcher.

i think you will be fine. most times the league is set up to have batting and pitching equal out. yes a single starter will get mroe points that a single batter...but there are only 5 or so starters in your lineup, while you have 9 or 10 batters. so it equals out

and yes, i would grab a couple aces early.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby NickyEyes113 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:37 pm

I'm in a head-to-head points league too.

go to baseballmoster.com

enter in your league scoring system and create a cheat sheet based on last years stats. it will show you what every player would have scored for fantasy with your point system last year.

I used this site to alter my scoring system until pitchers and hitters were close to even. I ended up with 9 pitchers and 11 hitters in the top 20 of points scored last year.

Honestly, with a lineup that can only be changed once a week, you're already preventing a lot of pitching problems.

I have daily lineup changes, and we took a few other precautions as well to make sure teams dont stack pitchers, etc.

5 starting pitchers, 2 relief pitchers, and 2 SP/RP spots on the roster. (I didn't want teams to be able to use 9 starters, because this would render relief pitchers useless)
10 starts maximum per week
50 transactions max per year (this averages out to only 2 per week to prevent stacking)
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby kab21 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:01 pm

I've played in a H2H keeper league (now dead) and a dynasty league. The biggest thing to avoid is streaming from the waiver wire and you have done that with weekly lineups.

As far as 2 start pitchers variability is part of the H2H format. In the season you will find that you get more frustrated when your opponent has Bud Norris throwing a complete game 8K shutout one week and you don't have a chance than matching up against a 2 start ace. The other issue that could be very frustrating is the team that has a lot of crappy starters but because he has a lot of them he is almost always guaranteed to have several 2 start pitchers. And typically a mediocre 2 start pitcher will equal a 1 start ace. So maybe you limit the number of bench spots. Or I think it is also possible to set a max # of starts at ESPN.

Finally, I'm a little concerned that if you don't one of the top 4-5 starting pitchers, you may be a little screwed.

Not true in the world of pitching. A lot of variability even at the top. Only 4 pitchers were in the top 10 both in 2010 and 2011 in my CBS H2H pts league. Every year there are 20-30 pitchers that can have an elite season. But it is true that pitching is the key in a H2H pts league. You should draft it earlier than a normal league but pitchers are also riskier imo. Although I get less convinced of that every year.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:05 pm

The only thing I really see is that starting pitchers should end up being the highest point scorers in this format by a long shot. Once people see that in projections, it's likely that SP get drafted much earlier in your league than you would normally anticipate. The key is assembling a strong staff, not having an Ace carry you. If your league-mates start snatching up SP early, load your offense up to the max.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby footballisbetter.com » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:46 pm

I play in a league like this. Yes, I stack my bench with decent starting pitching. It's huge to throw out a couple 2 start pitchers every week. Also try to target pitchers who work deep into games.

As far as hitting, it seems like power hitters have the most value.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby Drewbacca81 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:34 am

That was what I was afraid of. We're trying to keep it as low maintenance as possible, since there are several new members who have never played before. I'd rather not have it where you can switch in a ton of starting pitchers to squeeze out points, because that would favor a manager who micromanaged their team. I'd prefer to have it where the strategy came with having the better team, not who could squeeze out the most points from nowhere. Unfortunately, Yahoo! won't let you put in a max innings limit in H2H leagues, and there's no way to prevent intra-roster moves during the week. Ideally, the rosters would be the same every day as they are on Monday.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby Skin Blues » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:53 am

I played in a roto league on yahoo last year where the rosters locked. I guess that option isn't available for H2H. Weird.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby kab21 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:01 am

Drewbacca81 wrote:That was what I was afraid of. We're trying to keep it as low maintenance as possible, since there are several new members who have never played before. I'd rather not have it where you can switch in a ton of starting pitchers to squeeze out points, because that would favor a manager who micromanaged their team. I'd prefer to have it where the strategy came with having the better team, not who could squeeze out the most points from nowhere. Unfortunately, Yahoo! won't let you put in a max innings limit in H2H leagues, and there's no way to prevent intra-roster moves during the week. Ideally, the rosters would be the same every day as they are on Monday.
You should be able to set it to weekly lineups at Yahoo/ESPN. for really low maintenance set up a no bench league with weekly lineups. Some will be concerned about not having a backup but in a 12 tm league you can always go to the waiver wire and pick someone up in case of injury/sucktitude.
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Re: Head to Head Points Strategy

Postby Norby » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:43 am

Our points setup looks like this:

single: 1 point
double: 2 points
triple: 3 points
HR: 4 points
SB: 2 point
RBI: 1 point
runs: 1 point
strikeout: -.25 point
BB/IBB: 1 point
HBP: 1

win: 10 points
loss: -2 points
save: 9 points
IP: 2 points
strikeout: 1 point
hit: -.5 point
BB: -.5 point
HBP: -.5 point
ER: -1 points
CG: 5 points


This scoring system is something that we ended up with over the last 5 years or so after making yearly tweaks. We think it comes out pretty balanced across the board. Our goal was to make pretty much everyone valuable. Starting pitchers and closers are equally as valuable. It's not uncommon for guys in our league to stack 3-5 closers in their lineup every week since they're a very steady source of weekly points. Overall, the pitchers are really balanced with the batters as well.

Generally, most owners like to fill their bench with pitchers to take advantage of the two-starts when they roll around. However, we have put a limit on how many of our bench spots can be pitchers. We require at least a couple of the bench spots be batters (not sure if this can be done with Yahoo...we use CBS Commish).

Just giving my .02 cents. :)
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