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NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:55 am

saemick wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Ender wrote:It would be really dumb for them not to do this given how many pitchers get hurt hitting/running the bases every year.

Pitchers get hurt fielding and playing Guitar Hero, too.


This

Also, when did we start to feel the need to treat pitchers like fragile children?? last time I checked they were still athletes, right? Obviously, I have an NL-bias here, but having a DH basically takes away a lot of the strategy & intricacies of the game.


Pitchers are fragile.
Rangers pitcher Greg Harris once "strained his elbow" while "flicking sunflower seeds."

Matt Mantei needed four stitches in his right thumb after cutting it while opening a can of dog food just before Spring Training 2002. Mantei was *already on rehab*

Braves pitcher John Smoltz burned his chest trying to steam iron a shirt HE WAS WEARING AT THE TIME.

Rick Honeycutt suffered a large scratch across the forehead when he, after being ejected for scuffing the ball with a tack taped to his finger, wiped his brow in frustration.

Ricky Bones once hurt his lower back getting out of a chair while watching TV in the clubhouse.

Matt Anderson, Tigers' relief pitcher, once tore a muscle in his shoulder after participating in an octopus-throwing contest.

Pittsburgh pitcher Oliver Perez broke his toe kicking a laundry cart.

Chicago reliever Mike Remlinger (2005) injured his finger when he got it caught in a clubhouse recliner.

In 2005, Minnesota's Terry Mulholland rolled over in a hotel bed and had his eye poked "by an unruly pillow feather."
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Beeblebrox » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:34 am

It's been truly horrible to see how baseball has gone down hill in the past few decades. This would just be another nail in the coffin.

The DH is an abomination upon professional sports.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby mweir145 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:16 am

StlSluggers wrote:Also, I couldn't stop giggling when I imagined all of weir's future posts if this comes to fruition:

Eastern Division
Boston Red Sox
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Toronto Blue Jays

I wouldn't complain if it meant that I wouldn't have to ever watch a pitcher flail away at the plate again. I've pretty much gotten used to the idea of being in an impossible division after the last two decades.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby mweir145 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:17 am

bigh0rt wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:
Ender wrote:It would be really dumb for them not to do this given how many pitchers get hurt hitting/running the bases every year.

Pitchers get hurt fielding and playing Guitar Hero, too.

Also, I couldn't stop giggling when I imagined all of weir's future posts if this comes to fruition:

Eastern Division
Boston Red Sox
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Toronto Blue Jays
I'd probably just have to pick a new team to root for at this point...

You'd just be the Baltimore Orioles of the division. They still have fans...I think.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Grounded Polo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:49 am

mweir145 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:
StlSluggers wrote:Pitchers get hurt fielding and playing Guitar Hero, too.

Also, I couldn't stop giggling when I imagined all of weir's future posts if this comes to fruition:

Eastern Division
Boston Red Sox
New York Mets
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Toronto Blue Jays
I'd probably just have to pick a new team to root for at this point...

You'd just be the Baltimore Orioles of the division. They still have fans...I think.


Yeah, I'd just give up and convert to a Yankees fan if this ever happened.

I hate the DH but short of the AL ditching it, I think both leagues are better off with the same rules.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby J35J » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:48 am

I may be the only one that really doesn't care which way it goes...it doesn't really seem like a big deal either way to me...not much changes. It's still pitch ball, hit ball, field ball....
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Skin Blues » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:01 am

No, I don't really care all that much either but to think logically about it, it makes no sense to have the pitcher hit. If there were decent arguments against it that'd be one thing, but there aren't any. The DH being an abonination might be a bit overdramatic... some people have a really hard time dealing with change.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Merlin401 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:25 pm

Ender wrote:The only myth in all of this is that NL ball requires a lot more strategy, it is pretty rare that you get a situation where the manager has to actually think even in the NL. It is almost always when the pitcher comes up in the middle innings in a close game with RISP but that happens maybe 1 of 10 games. It is pretty rare that the NL game has any real strategic step up over the AL one. The playoffs are the exception since you shorten the starts and emphasize the bullpen and the bench a lot more, that would be the real shame from going to the DH for both leagues.


Wow, the completely disagree with you. As someone who watches a ton of games, the pitcher batting gives so much more layers of intrigue.

Here's last years data: AL had 840 pinch hitters used in 2000+ games. NL had 3938 pinch hitters used in 2000+ games. Thats 5x the strategy just in using pinch hitters. Thats also 1.7 pinch hitters by game so I entirely reject your premise that only 1 game in 10 has any the lack of DH have any relevance.

Of course every time you use a pinch hitter, the game gets more interesting as the bench gets reduced, options get limited and resource management becomes important. An AL game going to extra innings just means more innings. An NL game going to extra innings immediatly has you scrambling to see how many players are left on the bench, where the pitcher is in the lineup, what double switch may be useful. So yes, I find many times in most games where the pitcher batting makes the NL better. Of course, when you have a game like Stl-Mets for 19 innings, the NL is just absolutely insane whereas the AL would just be a game that was twice as long.

Of course, pinch hitting is not just the only strategic part of pitchers hitting. Every time through the lineup, there is strategy of how you are going to get through jams given the bottom of the lineup, how it can be used to your advantage, risking walking the 8 hitter and turning over the lineup to get out of a jam, etc, etc, etc.

In short, you are massively underestimating the number of interesting scenarios that regularly come up with the pitcher batting. But BEYOND THAT, with every at bat in close, late NL games, you are thinking of various scenarios that could come up with the pitcher. The game is vastly superior with the pitcher batting.

Another interesting aspect is it gives new ways for pitchers to have extra value. A guy like Maddux or Glavine were significantly more valuable than Randy Johnson in the box and that edge rewards better athletes that are able to add that element to their game.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Merlin401 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:28 pm

Skin Blues wrote:No, I don't really care all that much either but to think logically about it, it makes no sense to have the pitcher hit. If there were decent arguments against it that'd be one thing, but there aren't any. The DH being an abonination might be a bit overdramatic... some people have a really hard time dealing with change.


The argument is that they are one of the 9 men playing defensively, so they should be one of the 9 men playing offensively. What logical argument is it to say, "no, this position should focus on what they do instead of trying to be a complete player so we'll substitute him out for half the game". Why not have dual DH's so you can have a no-bat, all-glove SS in there who doesn't have to worry about embarrass himself like Rey Ordonez.
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Re: NL to Have DH Within 10 Years

Postby Ender » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:48 pm

Thats 5x the strategy just in using pinch hitters. Thats also 1.7 pinch hitters by game so I entirely reject your premise that only 1 game in 10 has any the lack of DH have any relevance.


Pinch hitting for the pitcher isn't really strategy in most cases though. Now when you have a pitcher still pitching well and the game is 2-1 and a runner is on 2nd with 2 outs that is a strategic situation, there is really no arguing that you lose something with the DH in situations like that. Actual strategic situations come up maybe once per trip through the rotation at most and it is usually less than that.

As a fan of an NL team I'm tired of watching a dozen pitchers get hurt while hitting every year though, the biggest reason the AL is ahead in talent is the DH protecting their pitching.
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