Veto Worthy?

[Urban Cohorts]

I wouldn't veto this trade.

I'd rather have the Halladay side, but both teams are taking risks here.

Halladay and Papelbon are the only sure things. Bruce could explode or he could remain at his current level of production. Choo could return to his 20/20 days or flop due to a lingering injury or too much time off. Feliz could be very effective or a total bust. Niese isn't worth owning in most leagues.

[joeyg2323]

how could you possibly veto this trade??? bruce is a beast, papblebon is a top 5 closer and feliz has been nothing but good hell be a fine starter. halladay is a top 3 pitcher, choo is a 30/30 threat but also is a horrible season threat and neise just sucks i think team a wins in this deal.



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[Mjbren1]

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.

[Beeblebrox]

There's nothing wrong with this trade at all.

I'd say anyone voting against this trade is simply trying to prevent trading completely. That person should probably try to find leagues that don't allow any trading at all, that would be more up their alley.

[Urban Cohorts]

I'm not going to say you are wrong in your assessments (even though I disagree), but they are completely subjective. As are the rankings you are using. Unless your league established a "set" system of rankings for trade issues, you can't cite any list as fact.

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level.

Yeah, Halladay and Bruce are what they are on that list, but I'm sure their draft positions vary on other sites. The MDP thread has Halladay as 16th and Bruce as 39th overall. That is a two round difference. And if you account age and upside into things (aka Bruce has more upside and Halladay is at his peak), then things become closer IMO (again, this is my opinion).

The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.

Pap and Choo are being drafted less than 12 spots from one another, so yes, I'd say they are even as far as lists go. Feliz is currently being drafted 153rd overall whereas Niese is being drafted 338th overall. Big difference there, which should speak for itself. And assuming that K's and Wins will be close is just that- an assumption. I would assume 150 IP from Feliz + 50 IP from an average SP > 200 IP from Niese in all departments.

I can tell you obviously don't like the trade, but all of us neutral posters disagree with the veto option (thus far). I don't mean to offend, but it seems like you may be more upset that you didn't pull this deal off and the commish (of all people) did. If you think the owner gave up too much in Halladay, look to make trades with him in the future.

And for the record, I'm using my draft positions from the Cafe's MDP thread, which is a collective, updated ranking of multiple drafts-

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[pjs1856]

no where near veto... Niese is not exactly great - Feliz is a risk - Bruce's 30 HR when you only need about 250 to win a 12 team 5x5 league is pretty huge... Halladay is a monster but i mean yea not vetoable.

[MaudDib]

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.

Quoting Berry doesn't prove your point. And like Urban said, rankings only mean so much. Rankings don't take in the differences between leagues.

You also don't give us much info on the league like size and style. In a 10 team league or less this is a pretty fair trade and could even be argued that the Bruce side wins. SP is much easier to find where a possible 40 HR guy isn't. Or if this is a keeper league at which point Halladay who is old enough that a fall off is going to happen sooner than later. Where as Bruce could be a future stud especially if he gets that BA up.

Too little info to make an informed decision on which side is better but that alone tells you the trade is fine. Veto-able trades are the ones it doesn't matter about the league, one owner got owned.

[HOOTIE]

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.

So if Matthew Berry says it's so, it's so?
Don't go off rankings, especially something like Berry.
Just so you know, last years value in a 5x5 roto 12 teams,
Bruce earned $20, to McCutchens $20, to Stantons $18.
Bill James and ZIPS projections have Stanton Bruce close, with 10 more hrs for Stanton.
Bruce isn't quite Stanton, but he's real close.
Btw, Halladay was 4th for pitchers last year in value. Niese was -4 value.

[Kimbos Beard]

So if Matthew Berry says it's so, it's so?
Don't go off rankings, especially something like Berry.

LOL. 100%. Quoting Berry actually hurts your argument in my eyes.

This is a reasonable trade and I have no problem vetoing a trade if I think its offensively lopsided.

[Element]

Didn't Berry predict Colvin to hit 40 bombs last season?