Veto Worthy? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Draft, Trade, Keeper and Waivers Questions

Veto Worthy?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Urban Cohorts » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:35 pm

I wouldn't veto this trade.

I'd rather have the Halladay side, but both teams are taking risks here.

Halladay and Papelbon are the only sure things. Bruce could explode or he could remain at his current level of production. Choo could return to his 20/20 days or flop due to a lingering injury or too much time off. Feliz could be very effective or a total bust. Niese isn't worth owning in most leagues.
Image
Urban Cohorts
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1717
Joined: 2 Jan 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Rome in all of its glory...

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby joeyg2323 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:38 pm

how could you possibly veto this trade??? bruce is a beast, papblebon is a top 5 closer and feliz has been nothing but good hell be a fine starter. halladay is a top 3 pitcher, choo is a 30/30 threat but also is a horrible season threat and neise just sucks i think team a wins in this deal.



viewtopic.php?f=29&t=440587
"They give you a round bat and they throw you a round ball. And they tell you to hit it square."-Willie Stargell
joeyg2323
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 946
(Past Year: 55)
Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Mjbren1 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:06 pm

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.
Mjbren1
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 89
Joined: 13 Feb 2012
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Beeblebrox » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:16 pm

There's nothing wrong with this trade at all.

I'd say anyone voting against this trade is simply trying to prevent trading completely. That person should probably try to find leagues that don't allow any trading at all, that would be more up their alley.
Beeblebrox
College Coach
College Coach

User avatar

Posts: 190
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Urban Cohorts » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm not going to say you are wrong in your assessments (even though I disagree), but they are completely subjective. As are the rankings you are using. Unless your league established a "set" system of rankings for trade issues, you can't cite any list as fact.

Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level.


Yeah, Halladay and Bruce are what they are on that list, but I'm sure their draft positions vary on other sites. The MDP thread has Halladay as 16th and Bruce as 39th overall. That is a two round difference. And if you account age and upside into things (aka Bruce has more upside and Halladay is at his peak), then things become closer IMO (again, this is my opinion).

The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.


Pap and Choo are being drafted less than 12 spots from one another, so yes, I'd say they are even as far as lists go. Feliz is currently being drafted 153rd overall whereas Niese is being drafted 338th overall. Big difference there, which should speak for itself. And assuming that K's and Wins will be close is just that- an assumption. I would assume 150 IP from Feliz + 50 IP from an average SP > 200 IP from Niese in all departments.

I can tell you obviously don't like the trade, but all of us neutral posters disagree with the veto option (thus far). I don't mean to offend, but it seems like you may be more upset that you didn't pull this deal off and the commish (of all people) did. If you think the owner gave up too much in Halladay, look to make trades with him in the future.

And for the record, I'm using my draft positions from the Cafe's MDP thread, which is a collective, updated ranking of multiple drafts-

viewtopic.php?t=438070
Last edited by Urban Cohorts on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Urban Cohorts
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 1717
Joined: 2 Jan 2009
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Rome in all of its glory...

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby pjs1856 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:50 pm

no where near veto... Niese is not exactly great - Feliz is a risk - Bruce's 30 HR when you only need about 250 to win a 12 team 5x5 league is pretty huge... Halladay is a monster but i mean yea not vetoable.
pjs1856
Softball Supervisor
Softball Supervisor


Posts: 40
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby MaudDib » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:07 pm

Mjbren1 wrote:Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.


Quoting Berry doesn't prove your point. And like Urban said, rankings only mean so much. Rankings don't take in the differences between leagues.

You also don't give us much info on the league like size and style. In a 10 team league or less this is a pretty fair trade and could even be argued that the Bruce side wins. SP is much easier to find where a possible 40 HR guy isn't. Or if this is a keeper league at which point Halladay who is old enough that a fall off is going to happen sooner than later. Where as Bruce could be a future stud especially if he gets that BA up.

Too little info to make an informed decision on which side is better but that alone tells you the trade is fine. Veto-able trades are the ones it doesn't matter about the league, one owner got owned.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."- Douglas Adams

Image
MaudDib
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamCafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 8016
(Past Year: 466)
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby HOOTIE » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Mjbren1 wrote:Hold on now Bruce is not a beast he's ranked 33rd by Berry and he's the 12th best outfielder, he bats like 250 and hits 30 homers, that's not beast, its productive. Considering Halladay is a 15th on Berry and the No.1 pitcher the best you are getting in return is 33? C'mon, I'd understand if it were Cutch or Stanton but Bruce is not on their level. The other players are pretty even but I'll tell you k's and wins Niese won't be far from if not ahead of Feliz. Pap for Choo that's fine.


So if Matthew Berry says it's so, it's so?
Don't go off rankings, especially something like Berry.
Just so you know, last years value in a 5x5 roto 12 teams,
Bruce earned $20, to McCutchens $20, to Stantons $18.
Bill James and ZIPS projections have Stanton Bruce close, with 10 more hrs for Stanton.
Bruce isn't quite Stanton, but he's real close.
Btw, Halladay was 4th for pitchers last year in value. Niese was -4 value.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
HOOTIE
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe Ranker
Posts: 15108
(Past Year: 305)
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Pearl Jam country, right next door to Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains.

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Kimbos Beard » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:03 am

HOOTIE wrote:So if Matthew Berry says it's so, it's so?
Don't go off rankings, especially something like Berry.


LOL. 100%. Quoting Berry actually hurts your argument in my eyes.

This is a reasonable trade and I have no problem vetoing a trade if I think its offensively lopsided.
Kimbos Beard
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Response Team
Posts: 2090
(Past Year: 27)
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Veto Worthy?

Postby Element » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:06 am

Didn't Berry predict Colvin to hit 40 bombs last season? :-o
Image
Element
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Response TeamCafe RankerMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 4891
(Past Year: 968)
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Draft, Trade, Keeper and Waivers Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Monday, Apr. 21
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Baltimore at Boston
(11:05 am)
Kansas City at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Cincinnati at Pittsburgh
(7:05 pm)
LA Angels at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Chi White Sox at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
St. Louis at NY Mets
(7:10 pm)
Miami at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
Arizona at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
San Diego at Milwaukee
(8:10 pm)
San Francisco at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
Texas at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
Philadelphia at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
Houston at Seattle
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact