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Veto Trade??

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Veto Trade??

Postby HustlinOwl » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:20 am

League has been pretty laid back in terms of trades going into its 4th year of existence and their are no rules against vetoing a trade. With that being said as a commish, how can I sit back without skepticism with the following trade.

Verlander for Chris Carpenter STL, Erik Aybar and Edwin Encarnacion 36th overall in minor draft. Thoughts?
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby miracles716 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:19 pm

I would not veto it unless there was obvious collusion going on, as i see it one team traded the #3 pitcher for the #24 pitcher, #20 3rd baseman and #11 SS, if this is a deep stack league then there might have been a need for more depth and quantity, so unless obvious cheating let the trade stand.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby mkultra » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:12 pm

I've had no problem in the past going to each manager involved in the trade- SEPARATELY- and asking him what value he's expecting out of the trade. Any sane response from both sides, no matter how much you disagree with it, means the trade should stand.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby bignasty022 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:49 pm

Do not veto IMO
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby SecretAgentMan » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:03 pm

Depends on your league, but in my league, laisse faire nonsense allowing some one to trade an elite first or second rounder player for multiple pieces of far less talent (none of which even comes close to a top 8 round pick I might add here) is not allowed and will get vetoed. You can never prove "collusion" so unless you believe owners can do whatever they want no matter how idioitc they are, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is way over it imo. The 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 is ripe for this type of abuse imo and if you want to maintain the integrity of your league, this kind of things needs to be discouraged. This would not even be a good dump trade at the deadline for a team re-building let alone to start the season.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby mkultra » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:44 pm

SecretAgentMan wrote:Depends on your league, but in my league, laisse faire nonsense allowing some one to trade an elite first or second rounder player for multiple pieces of far less talent (none of which even comes close to a top 8 round pick I might add here) is not allowed and will get vetoed. You can never prove "collusion" so unless you believe owners can do whatever they want no matter how idioitc they are, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is way over it imo. The 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 is ripe for this type of abuse imo and if you want to maintain the integrity of your league, this kind of things needs to be discouraged. This would not even be a good dump trade at the deadline for a team re-building let alone to start the season.


Neither you nor I know anything about this situation other than the players involved in the trade. What you're missing is:

- How deep the league is
- What the rules around keepers are (how many, how long)
- What the players the guy getting Carp, Aybar, and Encarnacion are replacing

If you're in a deep league with a great pitching staff but a really crappy SS and 3B, then that trade's expensive, but it might actually make your team better. Maybe it was the best deal he could get for Verlander that actually helps his team. Maybe he's worried about Verlander coming off a 250-inning year and being backed up by an infield of Miggy, Peralta, Raburn, and Fielder- a group that seems primed for Legendary Ineffectiveness.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby SecretAgentMan » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:34 am

mkultra wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:Depends on your league, but in my league, laisse faire nonsense allowing some one to trade an elite first or second rounder player for multiple pieces of far less talent (none of which even comes close to a top 8 round pick I might add here) is not allowed and will get vetoed. You can never prove "collusion" so unless you believe owners can do whatever they want no matter how idioitc they are, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is way over it imo. The 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 is ripe for this type of abuse imo and if you want to maintain the integrity of your league, this kind of things needs to be discouraged. This would not even be a good dump trade at the deadline for a team re-building let alone to start the season.


Neither you nor I know anything about this situation other than the players involved in the trade. What you're missing is:

- How deep the league is
- What the rules around keepers are (how many, how long)
- What the players the guy getting Carp, Aybar, and Encarnacion are replacing

If you're in a deep league with a great pitching staff but a really crappy SS and 3B, then that trade's expensive, but it might actually make your team better. Maybe it was the best deal he could get for Verlander that actually helps his team. Maybe he's worried about Verlander coming off a 250-inning year and being backed up by an infield of Miggy, Peralta, Raburn, and Fielder- a group that seems primed for Legendary Ineffectiveness.




Anything is possible. I might think MCAb is going to break his legs playing 3b. No reason to sell him for a couple of stiffs. Value is value and Verlander is one of the top 3 SPs in all MLB along with Halladay and Kershaw. You can certainly debate the order of those 3, but he is an obvious second round player in any league (ranked #13 overall on ESPN, for what that is worth). Carpenter, Aybar and Encarnacion?...same ESPN rankings are 127, 149 and 234 respectively for those 3. So i a 10 team league you are looking at trading a 2nd rounder for a 13th, 15th and 24 rounder\ trading a top SP for players literally ranked over 100+ ordinals below Verlander? If that is the best deal a Verlander owner can get in any league, then there is something seriously wrong imo. Sure it could be a 30 team, deep roster league where every MLB player is rostered, but short of something like that with him playing Jamey Caroll and Scott Sizemore on the left side of his IF, this is a bad deal by any measure of rationale judgment from a value perspective imo.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby HustlinOwl » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:01 am

Thanks for the feedback fellas, here is some more information on the teams. 12 team league with 23 starters and 6 bench players. This is an auction league, but do not think price has anything to do with trade considering owner decided to keep Verlander at $28 before acution

Team 1 receiving Verlander
C Carlos Ruiz
C Salvador Perez
1B Kendrys Morales
2B Dustin Pedroia
SS Erick Aybar
3B Pablo Sandoval
CI Carlos Lee
MI Jemile Weeks
OF Alex Rios
OF Cameron Maybin
OF Lorenzo Cain
OF Corey Hart
OF BJ Upton
UTL Billy Butler
SP Clayton Kershaw
SP Chris Carpenter
SP Matt Moore
SP Zack Grienke
RP Jonathan Papelbon
SP Max Scherzer
RP Brett Anderson
RP Sergio Santos
RP Ricky Nolasco
B Jason Motte
B Gavin Floyd
B Wandy Rodriguez
B Derek Jeter
B Ichiro Suzuki
B Edwin Encarnacion

Team 2 trading away Verlander
C Migel Montero
C Kurt Suzuki
1B Miguel Cabrera
2B Darwin Barney
SS Troy Tulowitzki
3B Jed Lowrie
CI Chase Headley
MI Alcides Escobar
OF Jacoby Ellsbury
OF Ryan Rayburn
OF John Mayberry Jr
OF Drew Stubbs
OF Grady Sizemore
UTL Nolan Reimold
SP Justin Verlander
SP Adam Wainwright
SP Yu Darvish
SP Jair Jurjjens
SP Carlos Marmol
SP Brandon Morrow
RP Tim Stauffer
RP Javy Guerra
RP Trevor Bauer
B Mitch Moreland
B Homer Bailey
B Francisco Cordero
B Grant Balfour
B David Hernandez
B Gordon Beckham
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby lane_anasazi2 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:24 am

SecretAgentMan wrote:Depends on your league, but in my league, laisse faire nonsense allowing some one to trade an elite first or second rounder player for multiple pieces of far less talent (none of which even comes close to a top 8 round pick I might add here) is not allowed and will get vetoed. You can never prove "collusion" so unless you believe owners can do whatever they want no matter how idioitc they are, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is way over it imo. The 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 is ripe for this type of abuse imo and if you want to maintain the integrity of your league, this kind of things needs to be discouraged. This would not even be a good dump trade at the deadline for a team re-building let alone to start the season.


Wow, I would hate to be in your league. I love it when you have a system where my competitors get to vote to substitute their judgment for my own. Yep, no foreseeable problems there. /whistle.
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Re: Veto Trade??

Postby SecretAgentMan » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:08 am

lane_anasazi2 wrote:
SecretAgentMan wrote:Depends on your league, but in my league, laisse faire nonsense allowing some one to trade an elite first or second rounder player for multiple pieces of far less talent (none of which even comes close to a top 8 round pick I might add here) is not allowed and will get vetoed. You can never prove "collusion" so unless you believe owners can do whatever they want no matter how idioitc they are, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is way over it imo. The 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 is ripe for this type of abuse imo and if you want to maintain the integrity of your league, this kind of things needs to be discouraged. This would not even be a good dump trade at the deadline for a team re-building let alone to start the season.


Wow, I would hate to be in your league. I love it when you have a system where my competitors get to vote to substitute their judgment for my own. Yep, no foreseeable problems there. /whistle.



That is all fine if everyone isn't a fool. You would not appreciate the laisse faire nonsense if you were leading the league in August and the number 2 team trades 3 stiffs for a first or second rounder. All it takes is one fool to ruin a fantasy league and it is my experience that there are a lot of fools playing this game, esp. in public leagues. Even in my pay leagues, we have a couple of winners that in one case I had to institute special rules for because he was such an idiot he kept making ridiculous 2 for 1 deals trading top talent for near waiver wire trash and every one complained. Laisse faire is fine for those that play in all expert leagues but I find a benevolent dictator of a commish is the best way to run things. If everyone knows that a Verlander for a bunch of stiffs type deal is going to be shot down by the commish, then usually most owners will not try to pull that garbage in the first place. Finding the village idiot and seeing what you can get away with is not what the fantasy baseball game is supposed to about imo. Anyone who does is free to play somewhere else.
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