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Exploit my scoring sytem

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Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby hyer7 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:01 pm

I am trying to avoid problems before they happen. Please take a look at our scoring system. I have the most concern about the pitching. I am trying to decide if 7 is the correct number of pitchers and the max amount of starts per week. The scoring system is intended to reward power hitters and power pitching. I have used this scoring system for years but with 4 SP and 2 RP. I am trying to figure out how changing from 4 SP and 2 RP to just 7 P will change the league. We did not have a max start per week instead we took each SP best start for the week.

14 Teams - H2H Points, weekly line-ups


Line-ups: C, 1b, 2b, 3b, ss, 3 OF, UT 7 Pitchers (can be 7 SP, 7 RP or any combo) Right now the maximum starts is set to 7.
7 player bench

Hitting:
Single = 1
Double = 2
Triple = 3
HR = 4
RBI = 3
Run = 2
Walk = 1
SB =2

Pitching:
Win =10
QS= 5
Save= 10
IP= 3 (1 per out)
Hit Allowed = -1
Walk -1
K = 3
Holds = 5
Earned Runs = -3
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby safeco1999 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:26 am

I dont feel like doing the math but you can easily test it yourself by taking say.. the top 5 hitters and top 5 pitchers from last year and seeing how many points they would accumulate based on your system. You can also throw in a speed demon, a reliever with a lot of vulture wins, or a hot shot closer and see how it all adds up.
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby lane_anasazi2 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:56 am

Hitting seems good. You are definitely devaluing speed guys. By my rough count David Ortiz would be a $20-$25 player last year under this system, and Jose Reyes would be worth mid-teens, $15-$17 maybe.

Pitching is also rewarding high-K guys. Cahill, Worley, Buehrle, Baker types would be worth a couple bucks at most. I don't think it'll change the league much to go 7 P versus some kind of SP/RP split. The relievers stack up about right, in fact many are undervalued. Papelbon/Marmol/Bell were only $10-$12 guys with that points setup, and you'd have to be a really good MR to be rosterable here.
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby dfa » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:18 am

I like how you emphasize events a player has the most control over, power and Ks, but I find it odd that an RBI is so heavily valued. As a consequence, being an average hitter on a high scoring team is much more valuable than being an average hitter on a lower scoring team. I also find it interesting that a save is worth as many points as a win, so a good closer is worth more than a low strikeout pitcher, as if you are punishing a pitcher that pitches to his defense, if such a thing really exists.

Your scoring system does look like fun though!
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby hyer7 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:53 pm

I have used this scoring system for the last 10 years. It was developed by a couple guys from northern MN/Fargo, ND. I like the scoring system and am starting my own league with it with a couple changes.

1) Adding holds - 5 pts - shouldn't have too much of an impact, makes a few middle relievers rosterable instead of none
2) Change Wins from 15 to 10 AND add Quality Starts for 5 points - shouldn't change much, this makes sure a relief win is worth less than a starting pitcher win
3.) Change SP from only taking their best start each week to allowing up to 7 starts per week. This increases the number of starts from 4 (old league rules) to potentially 7. This is the big one. SP get the most points in the league, I starting to feel like 7 P might make the league too SP heavy. A limit of 6 Starts per week might help balance the hitting and pitching.

Here are the top 20 scorers from last year.

Matt Kemp, LAD OF 1115
Curtis Granderson, NYY OF 1086
Jacoby Ellsbury, Bos OF 1047
Ryan Braun, Mil OF 1011
Adrian Gonzalez, Bos 1B 988
Miguel Cabrera, Det 1B 984
Jose Bautista, Tor 3B, OF 981
Prince Fielder, Det 1B 981
Joey Votto, Cin 1B 955
Robinson Cano, NYY 2B 948
Ian Kinsler, Tex 2B 918
Dustin Pedroia, Bos 2B 916
Albert Pujols, LAA 1B 899
Mark Teixeira, NYY 1B 888
Justin Upton, Ari OF 888
Alex Gordon, KC OF 871
Ben Zobrist, TB 2B, OF 862
Ryan Howard, Phi 1B  DTD 859
Michael Young, Tex 1B, 3B, DH 852
Melky Cabrera, SF OF 849

Top SP
Justin Verlander Det SP 1431
Clayton Kershaw, LAD SP 1354
Cliff Lee, Phi SP 1242
Roy Halladay, Phi SP 1220
James Shields, TB SP 1169
CC Sabathia, NYY SP 1159
Jered Weaver, LAA SP 1144
Ian Kennedy, Ari SP 1121
Tim Lincecum, SF SP 1046
C.J. Wilson, LAA SP 1044
Dan Haren, LAA SP 1035
Cole Hamels, Phi SP  DTD 1026
Felix Hernandez, Sea SP 1022
Yovani Gallardo, Mil SP 1003
David Price, TB SP 991
Gio Gonzalez, Wsh SP 961
Ricky Romero, Tor SP 959
Zack Greinke, Mil SP 933
Matt Cain, SF SP 929

RP
Craig Kimbrel, Atl RP 998
John Axford, Mil RP 837
Drew Storen, Wsh RP 822
Jose Valverde, Det RP 804
J.J. Putz, Ari RP 742
Mariano Rivera, NYY RP   725
Jonathan Papelbon, Phi RP 701
Heath Bell, Mia RP 693
Joel Hanrahan, Pit RP 690
Carlos Marmol, ChC RP 688
Sergio Santos, Tor RP 681
Francisco Cordero, Tor RP 652
Jordan Walden, LAA RP 642
Brian Wilson, SF RP  DTD 639
Fernando Salas, StL RP 637
Ryan Madson, Cin RP 630
Francisco Rodriguez, Mil RP 616
Brandon League, Sea RP 581
Mark Melancon, Bos RP 581
Chris Perez, Cle RP 578
Neftali Feliz, Tex RP 570
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby hyer7 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:06 pm

dfa wrote:I like how you emphasize events a player has the most control over, power and Ks, but I find it odd that an RBI is so heavily valued. As a consequence, being an average hitter on a high scoring team is much more valuable than being an average hitter on a lower scoring team. I also find it interesting that a save is worth as many points as a win, so a good closer is worth more than a low strikeout pitcher, as if you are punishing a pitcher that pitches to his defense, if such a thing really exists.

Your scoring system does look like fun though!


I agree with about the RBIs. I have looked into decreasing their value to 2 points, however a simultaneous decrease would be needed with the pitchers. Otherwise pitchers would score a ton more points that hitters. I don't see an obvious choice, reducing K's or IP to 2 hurts SP too much IMO.
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby hot4tx » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:31 pm

I didn't look at the ins and outs of hitting much. I agree the 3 points for RBI looks odd when you only get 4 points for a HR. So a guy that has a lot of RBI chances can really score more points for you than a better hitter that doesn't get quite as lucky or is on a worse team. If you move that down to 2 points, so that it's even with runs, does that throw the pitchers/hitters off balance? If so maybe make runs and rbi each worth 2.5 points since both take teammates to drive in or to drive you in (except for the HR)? Like I said I didn't look at how it actually worked out using last years stats or anything. I might also be tempted to add in -1 pts for Ks, again depending on how it would balance hitter scoring with pitchers you may or may not.

I do really like how the scoring is set up for pitching. As is mentioned above you reward guys for things they can control and how valuable they are to a team. It does push the Fisters and Hellicksons of the world down a bit, but Fister (last year's #30 SP) is valued between Storen (RP#4) and Putz (RP#5) using last year's stats. I think that's definitely not overvaluing closers, as normally happens in leagues where W and Sv are both the same amount of points.

Interesting having the "max starts per week" sitting at 7 for this type of format. That will either be a neat strategy-inducing rule or will suck and people will complain about it year 'round. I might be tempted to bump it up to 8 at least.
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby hyer7 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:54 pm

Interesting having the "max starts per week" sitting at 7 for this type of format. That will either be a neat strategy-inducing rule or will suck and people will complain about it year 'round. I might be tempted to bump it up to 8 at least.



The max starts per week is the main variable I am trying to nail down. I want to keep the number low because I want to limit pitcher streaming and fence posting. Setting the max starts per week at 7 really means an owner could get to 12 starts in a week if they used 6 SP and all had 2 starts starting on the same day of the week. This would be hard to do, but getting to 10 starts might be possible if a team loaded its bench with SP.

If the max starts per week was 8 then owners could conceivably get to 14 starts and easily get to 10 consistently. In this scenario, the pitching would dwarf the hitting and upset the balance of the scoring.
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Re: Exploit my scoring sytem

Postby ndg728 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:02 pm

I started a system in my league very similar to this last year. In my opinion RBI's are over valued. Another thing I would think about on pitching is actually making RP positions. Like 5 SP and 2 RP. Here is what we are trying this year to fix some of the issue's other people pointed out. And I would like to invite anyone to give their input on my scoring system as well.

Positions: C, C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CF, LF, RF, OF, OF, UT 6 SP, 3 RP

Hitting
1pt single
2pt double
3pt triple
4pt HR
1pt BB
1pt Run
1pt RBI
2pt SB
-1pt CS
-1pt SO

Pitching
1.5pt IP
1pt K's
10pt W
-5 L
7pt Sv
-2 ER
-1 Hit
5pt SHO
5pt CG
-5 BS
-1 BB
5pt Hold

We went with 1.5pt for innings pitched instead of quality starts. But it is still something I am considering and making IP just 1 pt. That's the beauty of Fantasy Baseball, you can tinker, experiment and try new things. After this season we will probably make a few more adjustments, but we are getting close to a long term scoring system.
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